Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
A few thousand temporary construction jobs and a few handouts will not fix the job problem. Maybe the crash will be postponed for a year, but we can't do a trillion dollar 'stimulus' every year. If we want to re-establish ourselves as world leaders in the economic sense, we need for the permanent good paying jobs to return, otherwise we will be reduced immensely. The financial sector was propping up the economy, providing trillions in funny money, that people spent willy-nilly, providing work millions of jobs. Now it's all gone, and the 'real' jobs like tech and manufacturing are not being done by Americans. We will soon be reduced to a third world country.
Dude, That's what I've been saying all along. Roosevelt pumped money into the economy for four years. As soon as he slowed the governments spending, the economy tanked once again. The new deal had fixed nothing.
The Mexicans generally seem to be hard working individuals, and they tend to do manual labor jobs for less than Americans are willing to. However the hospitals can't pay for example a Filipino nurse a lower wage than an American nurse at the same hospital without breaking some sort of law.
The same applies for the Indian information technology workers, except that they can get around it sometimes by going thru 'offshore' who are in contact with 'onshore' Indian workers. The American manufacturing industries need some sort of help to get started again, unless we want our endless debt to be held by the Chinese.
The field I've been in for many years is now exporting some of the higher paid jobs to India because they can pay them WAY less than they pay us. I've done CAD/CAM for circuit board manufacturing, and that used to be the highest demand job in the industry, and paid 50K plus. It still is in demand, but they don't pay as much as they used to. I've talked to several people who told me they send the jobs over to India now so they don't have to pay any benefits, and pay them much less than they did the US workers (it's contracted out, so don't have to pay them the same as the workers). Yes, it would be nice to get some of our jobs back.
So what is the tipping point when Americans accept a lower paying job rather than sitting on unemployment or making nothing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingForward
Nonsense. They're importing nurses, and sub-standard nurses at that, from Third World nations because they can pay them less. Americans deserve to be paid a salary that allows them to get ahead in life. And nurses--upon whom lives depend--should be paid a very good wage. Instead, they are exploited and, as such, the enrollment in nursing school has gone down.
New Orleans was built by illegal workers because construction companies didn't want to pay Americans a fair wage.
Mexican people don't have any greater work ethic than Americans. If they did, their nation would be working a bit better, wouldn't it?
So you want to tell Dell to stop making PC's in Ireland? Microsoft to stop using India for tech support?
Good luck with that.
I agree American companies need to start building here again, but as long as Americans think they deserve 75k a year to lugg and weld or punch circuit boards out, no company will use American labor. We have priced ourselves out of the labor pool.
Tech software jobs will most likely continue to head overseas, as other countries put greater emphasis on Math and Science in schools. When the average US college student doesn't know the Natural Log of e and East Indian 10th graders are practicing Partial Differential Equations...which country would you trust to do your complex algorithms?
If US cannot offer a better price, then it better offer a better product. At this point we are doing neither and the jobs will continue to flow cout <<
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAMERCAT
A few thousand temporary construction jobs and a few handouts will not fix the job problem. Maybe the crash will be postponed for a year, but we can't do a trillion dollar 'stimulus' every year. If we want to re-establish ourselves as world leaders in the economic sense, we need for the permanent good paying jobs to return, otherwise we will be reduced immensely. The financial sector was propping up the economy, providing trillions in funny money, that people spent willy-nilly, providing work millions of jobs. Now it's all gone, and the 'real' jobs like tech and manufacturing are not being done by Americans. We will soon be reduced to a third world country.
A few thousand temporary construction jobs and a few handouts will not fix the job problem. Maybe the crash will be postponed for a year, but we can't do a trillion dollar 'stimulus' every year. If we want to re-establish ourselves as world leaders in the economic sense, we need for the permanent good paying jobs to return, otherwise we will be reduced immensely. The financial sector was propping up the economy, providing trillions in funny money, that people spent willy-nilly, providing work millions of jobs. Now it's all gone, and the 'real' jobs like tech and manufacturing are not being done by Americans. We will soon be reduced to a third world country.
There are only a few reasons for jobs going over seas.
Lower taxes (The US has the highest capital gains tax rate in the world).
More favorable labor rates (Unions are largely responsible for making our businesses non-competative, with ever increasing demands for benefits and wages that are way out of line).
Massive and expensive environmental requirements forced on our corporations that no other country requires (Cost of doing business).
No matter what Barak does, he isn't going to change any of the above three things, but in fact, he is going to tighten the noose on business even more. Therefore, expect to see even more businesses flee during his administration.
Why do you think that even as the news of his winning the election in November hit the airwaves, and before he even took office, people were downsizing and laying off employees?
We aren't going to reclaim anything until the above three things are corrected, and I don't see that happening in my lifetime. The radical environmentalists, and the union leaders are in control of our government.
Last edited by nononsenseguy; 02-16-2009 at 04:57 AM..
Reason: spelling
Why do you think that even as the news of his winning the election in November hit the airwaves, and before he even took office, people were downsizing and laying off employees?
Let's be honest - the layoffs and outsourcing have nothing to do with Obama. They had everything to do with the deep recession we are in, plus there's a bit of business using the recession as an excuse to beat up on workers...
The only way any of the outsourcing could be related to Obama would be if business thought he was going to crack down on it - and they were getting in before the door closed.
By the way - I'm one of the recent victims of outsourcing... I work in IT and our department is being outsourced to an Indian company.. but I'm hopeful of landing a job ... and I have a few more months on the job.. Right now I'm training my replacements... and you know what - they're not anything special - they can just throw more bodies at the work - but they don't understand the business that well - so not sure if they'll be able to provide new systems - maybe just maintain the existing.
A few thousand temporary construction jobs and a few handouts will not fix the job problem. Maybe the crash will be postponed for a year, but we can't do a trillion dollar 'stimulus' every year. If we want to re-establish ourselves as world leaders in the economic sense, we need for the permanent good paying jobs to return, otherwise we will be reduced immensely. The financial sector was propping up the economy, providing trillions in funny money, that people spent willy-nilly, providing work millions of jobs. Now it's all gone, and the 'real' jobs like tech and manufacturing are not being done by Americans. We will soon be reduced to a third world country.
I agree 100% but I don't think thats what our government wants, I think they want a rich and a poor class and my opinion is that their going to get what they want unless there is a revolution.
There are only a few reasons for jobs going over seas.
Lower taxes (The US has the highest capital gains tax rate in the world).
More favorable labor rates (Unions are largely responsible for making our businesses non-competative, with ever increasing demands for benefits and wages that are way out of line).
Massive and expensive environmental requirements forced on our corporations that no other country requires (Cost of doing business).
Actually your analysis is off the mark. The US already has corporate loopholes which allow companies to be competitive here....were that the real issue.
While I agree some unions worsen the problem, no US company... union or otherwise is in the same ballpark as developing nations for labor. Non-union professional engineering and other jobs requiring advanced degrees paying
$80k in the US pay $20k in other nations. This is why the professional support and R&D jobs are all following the wrench turning assembly jobs out of the country.
You do not mention the allure of emerging massive consumer markets as one of the biggest reasons companies are leaving the US. A billion Chinese and a billion Indians now with money in their pockets to burn is something we can't compete with.
You also do not mention the burden of Health Care which is becoming an increasingly large factor for companies to get out of America as our Health Care system continues be propped up by private employers and as costs continue to spiral out of control.
Regarding environmental regulations, this is partly true. Most multinational corporations are now making efforts to ensure that their suppliers and manufacturers in other countries have a basic degree of environmental, health and safety regulations they follow. Nobody wants to be the next Nike Scandal. However, ensuring that 2nd and 3rd tier suppliers follow these regulations becomes increasingly problematic in other countries.
Outsourcing has been going on for years. Our company employs thousands of people in call centers and several hundred IT professionals in India. The number of IT personnel there is increasing and we have laid off thousands here in US. We have plans to lay off another 4000 early this year.
However, the trend for call centers is reversing as customers are unhappy with the poor quality of the service they get from India. Many companies are already advertising customer service with "real American" on the phone. That's good news.
The trend for IT personnel moving out of US seems to be accelerating, as you can hire them in India for so much less althought I am not too convinced about the quality of their work. In our case they are the source of most of out problems with our software. This is due to them fixing something, and breaking something else in progress. This is why I still have a job. The plan was to get rid of our department in US by now and move all operations to India. The sloppier they are, the longer I will have a job.
As for nurses, there is currently a shortage of half a million nurses in US, simply because Americans are not willing to put up with the stress. Hospitals are outsourcing doctor services to India and other countries, but nurses will always be needed right here where the patients are.
Outsourcing isn't simply one big ship that needs to be turned around. It's a fleet of big ships that's nearly impossible to turn around. Even if we could turn around one ship, there are dozens of others that will have sailed away.
We're at a time that most Americans have dreaded: we have to create a new economy, and say goodbye to the steel-making, tool-n-die, shovel-ready, hammer-swinging jobs of yesteryear.
Problem is, we're educated and conditioned to follow orders, sit 'here', do 'this', and collect our modest paychecks. We don't teach or encourage innovation. If we did, we'd have been innovative enough to keep jobs here in the first place. So now we're waiting--waiting for the inevitable speech from the President, who will be telling us that things are worse than previously believed; worse than anyone could have predicted; and that government will have to spend more in order to stave off depression.
But while we're waiting, we need to start thinking about what kind of new economy we're going to create. And if we don't create it soon, someone else will create it for us.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
