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Ah an honest post and accurate because that is exactly what it boils down to. If they do the dirty deed we can distance ourselves from it. Pretend to be appalled at the right moments and continue the support with a strong worded scolding.
Yeledaf we have finally agreed on something.
Ah, but we do not "distance ourselves from it." Our support for Israel is forthright and out in the open, and it contains, as dialogue between friends will, frank and earnest criticism. It is also in our best interest, and signifies our commitment to defending civilized allies from genocidal maniacs.
And it will continue. Ask Mr. Obama and Mr. McCain.
Big difference actually. The reparations serve no purpose what so ever other than to try and buy away guilt of our 140+ year old sins.
Israel on the other hand it can be argued is providing a service for the money. I myself tend to disagree on its worth but they do in fact provide Intel, verify the effectiveness of the weapons we provide them and do in fact offer a quick reaction force should we need it. They also provide indepth training that equals experience. Something we ourselves cannot duplicate. I know I benefitted from it in the 1980's.
Although no fan of the Israeli gov I do have a great respect for the IDF's capability.
The tired argument of anti-semitism from liberal RINO neo-cons for anything less than unconditional support to rain money on Israel is nothing short of the same rhetoric used by reparation supporters in their tirade of "racism racism!". It has ceased to be of any value and is really just fodder for snake charming pseudo-Christian evangelicals and the Bill Kristol Republican imposters of the world to throw good money after bad.
Intel for what, praytell? True conservatives agree that we don't friggin' need to be in the Middle East!
It will end, that much we can disagree on. As the richer countries overtake us economically, we will be as ready to support Israel at the same level as countries like Greece or Portugal would. I guarantee you one thing: the policy will change as quickly or quicker than the subprime market collapsed. Whenever America has experienced a crisis, policies change pretty dern quickly (whether or not its citizens or even its leaders agree).
Ah, but we do not "distance ourselves from it." Our support for Israel is forthright and out in the open, and it contains, as dialogue between friends will, frank and earnest criticism. It is also in our best interest, and signifies our commitment to defending civilized allies from genocidal maniacs.
And it will continue. Ask Mr. Obama and Mr. McCain.
You misunderstand. It allows us to distance ourselves if we should so choose.
Intel for what, praytell? True conservatives agree that we don't friggin' need to be in the Middle East.
It matters not what the intel is for. It is still provided. Even if not always accurate or more often the case missing important pieces that would infact impact our decisions. Israel has been a valid source for a long time.
And it will continue. Ask Mr. Obama and Mr. McCain.
LOL. Believeing confidence men is not something I've learned to do just yet. They can say it will continue all they want, doesn't mean it's going to happen.
You misunderstand. It allows us to distance ourselves if we should so choose.
Intel for what, praytell? True conservatives agree that we don't friggin' need to be in the Middle East.
It matters not what the intel is for. It is still provided. Even if not always accurate or more often the case missing important pieces that would infact impact our decisions. Israel has been a valid source for a long time.
Oil coming out of the Middle East is becoming less relevant for us over time, since China and India are now able to take more from what used to be our imports. Also, since countries are already and will continue to dump the petrodollar (including Saudi Arabia), our reason for being there has become practically a moot point. We must invest in our infrastructure by cutting taxes and eliminating these subsidization programs, not in the infrastructure of a country that holds a trade surplus while we hold a budget-stangling trade deficit.
Oil coming out of the Middle East is becoming less relevant for us over time, since China and India are now able to take more from what used to be our imports. Also, since countries are already and will continue to dump the petrodollar (including Saudi Arabia), our reason for being there has become practically a moot point. We must invest in our infrastructure by cutting taxes and eliminating these subsidization programs, not in the infrastructure of a country that holds a trade surplus while we hold a budget-stangling trade deficit.
I don't disagree with you. But until our elected officials become more concerned with what is best for our nation rather than their wallets we are stuck in the ditch.
Lets say we invest 50 billion in alternative fuels and actually succeed. The world will no longer need mideast oil. Who will they blame? How would they react? History demonstrates they would retaliate with terrorist attacks.
Our single best source for intel would be Israel. Until we tighten our border security these attacks remain a very real very doable threat.
Israel is a leach that weakens America, sucking our Treasury dry and is just another entitlement program, nothing more.
Can you give specific examples of how America is weakened by Israel? And in the context of a multi-trillion dollar budget how the tiny fraction of that which goes to Israel can be classified as "sucking our treasury dry?"
I get your point on considering all foreign aid and entitlement and thus something to do away with, but your language here is confusing.
Can you give specific examples of how America is weakened by Israel? And in the context of a multi-trillion dollar budget how the tiny fraction of that which goes to Israel can be classified as "sucking our treasury dry?"
I get your point on considering all foreign aid and entitlement and thus something to do away with, but your language here is confusing.
You wish to justify unconditional aid to Israel in the form of BILLIONS of dollars as "trivial"? Everyone b---s about how taxes are too high, or least doesn't want to raise them. Given our massive budget deficit and ZERO room to cut taxes, do you really expect a fiscal conservative like myself to stand idly by while goodie goodie world cop wannabes waste taxpayer money?
We are weakened by Israel because of the implied overleveraging in the Middle East our unconditional support for that country "rewards" us with. Just like a homeowner using massive mortgage leverage to their benefit as values rise, the leverage works against you in bad times, as you can see in the current housing crisis. If we are drawn into the Middle East because of something Israel did on its own accord or even an overzealous defense, we will be forced to defend her and waste untold amounts of taxpayer money to appease liberal warmongering RINO neo-cons and their voter base.
There is nothing confusing about my language. Cut foreign aid. ALL of it. Egypt, Africa, AND Israel. We're already schedule to tap out on civilian aid. Let's not stop there. Israel is strong enough to defend herself.
I find the hypocrisy of so-called "conservatives" and their cherry picking of entitlement programs laughable. At least, laughable if it wasn't so tragic.
You wish to justify unconditional aid to Israel in the form of BILLIONS of dollars as "trivial"? Everyone b---s about how taxes are too high, or least doesn't want to raise them. Given our massive budget deficit and ZERO room to cut taxes, do you really expect a fiscal conservative like myself to stand idly by while goodie goodie world cop wannabes waste taxpayer money?
We are weakened by Israel because of the implied overleveraging in the Middle East our unconditional support for that country "rewards" us with. Just like a homeowner using massive mortgage leverage to their benefit as values rise, the leverage works against you in bad times, as you can see in the current housing crisis. If we are drawn into the Middle East because of something Israel did on its own accord or even an overzealous defense, we will be forced to defend her and waste untold amounts of taxpayer money to appease liberal warmongering RINO neo-cons and their voter base.
There is nothing confusing about my language. Cut foreign aid. ALL of it. Egypt, Africa, AND Israel. We're already schedule to tap out on civilian aid. Let's not stop there. Israel is strong enough to defend herself.
I find the hypocrisy of so-called "conservatives" and their cherry picking of entitlement programs laughable. At least, laughable if it wasn't so tragic.
The word "trivial" which you put in quotes was not in my posting to you.
Can you give specific examples of how America is weakened by Israel?
Israeli spies obtained ultra-sensitive data on not only how the US and UK were able to track Russian submarines, but why they were able to do so.
They traded it to the Russians for exit-visas for Russian Jews.
Because Reagan refused to give the Israelis a Cray Super II, the Israelis spies stole data on terrain guided cruise missiles.
Then there's 9-11. 100s of Israeli spies in the US illegally who just happened to be living blocks away from the apartment of Mohammed Atta and crew in Sarasota, Florida. And the 5 Israeli spies working for a "moving company" who just happened to have their moving van parked in the parking lot of an apartment complex across the river and in plain view of the WTC. And they just happened to be standing on the roof of the moving van. And they just happened to have a video camera. And it just happened to be mounted on a tripod. And they just happened to be there at 8:35 AM. And three of them just happened to appear on Israeli TV a few months later claiming "Our purpose was to document the event."
With allies like Israel, the US doesn't need any enemies.
Last edited by NewToCA; 08-24-2008 at 11:59 PM..
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