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A kid (a cousin) told my wife (an educator) matter of factly that teachers give homework because they're bad at their jobs. Likely something he casually heard from his far right leaning father who constantly rails against education.
As an educator, you just can't win. Wife is ecstatic to get out of the classroom after getting a job in admin at a top district. Teaching seems like an abysmal, thankless job that has become highly politicized in her district. Hopefully, one day, there will be a massive shortage of them, and my wife and her colleagues can lick up all those salty, delicious tears from those who took them for granted all those years. Bleep around and find out, as they say.
A kid (a cousin) told my wife (an educator) matter of factly that teachers give homework because they're bad at their jobs. Likely something he casually heard from his far right leaning father who constantly rails against education.
Homework is actually an easy way for an average student to bring up his average. Homework is a percentage of the overall grade. As long as it's done, it lifts up the grade average. Why would a parent complain?
That's an interesting point for discussion. I have often heard that grades are supposed to be a measurement or an assessment but I've often seen and felt they were neither. Rather they seem to be used punitively. There are so many more ways to get a bad grade compared to the ways to get a good one.
Consider if they are a measurement, what are they a measurement of? What are they measuring against? Some would say a bell curve. Oh really? Which "bell curve" are they measuring against? That of the entire population or of the specific test in the specific class they are in? Or are they measuring against a standard? What standard? How was it determined? If C is defined as Average, is that good or bad? Why is it so often considered "bad" for a student to get a C? It would be the expected value so shouldn't that be a good thing?
There's a lot to unpack in that question of "what is a grade?"
This is exactly what Equitable Grading is trying to fix. The vision laid out in the book is that grades should strictly be a measure of a student's progress towards a specific standard at any given time and that those grades should be reliable across different teachers. Also that grades should not be used as an incentive or try to measure things like effort or behavior.
Personally I am unsure if that is possible or if these changes are doing a good job of reaching that goal.
The future is technology and the jobs will go to the countries with the best and brightest students.
We're digging our own graves here with lowering standards.
As a former teacher and coach, I understand....fully. That's why I left teaching in toto. I saw this coming a long time ago , i.e. lowering the bar, but more importantly Making Excuses for ignorance and lack of accomplishment aka "Why Johnny Can't Read".
This is offensive.
The problem is Liberalism and the types of teachers and administrators that have infected the ENTIRE educational system/structure.
The problem why Johnny can't achieve and read, is that Johnny's PARENTS can't achieve and read.
The problem is LACK of DISCIPLINE, in and out of the classroom. I saw it first handed.
The problem is having the blind leading the blind - low expectations, no responsibility, NO real punishment for rule violations - at home, at school, and in the street.
The problem is that emphasis is placed on the WRONG activities - sports are fine, but it ain't all about "dat" - look around, listen, lots of sports stars still don't speak clear American English ! why? it's not culturally valued in schools or in the home. Look around and Listen - it's shocking.
The problem is FAMILY and parental smarts, standards and involvement . School and education are not made central in childhood development.
DISCIPLINE ! that includes schoolwork and yes, a bit of homework, but not unreasonable. Use it for "review" and solidifying understanding of in-class subjects and procedures.
Have school 12 months, not 9 - shorten days. Maintain short vacation periods It's children's JOB - much like adults.
The problems START with FAMILY LIFE, and continued with TEACHER UNIONS, who aren't advocates for children at all, nor advocates for strict education.
One solution is to kick bad actors and thug behavior OUT of public schools. Get rid of them.
Hire TEACHERS who actually can TEACH !
STOP social promotions in grade levels - FLUNK THEM and say goodbye after efforts of remediation. Many NEED to be FLUNKED and held back - then maybe a few can be saved, but "Salvation" wasn't MEANT for everyone - they must CHOOSE it, given solid opportunity
ALSO, GET RID of totally stupid teachers, many with "masters degrees" (some from BS universities) LOL - eliminate tenure. Grade the teachers as well.
Accountability ! family, educational, social, cultural, and sexual (how about stopping the proliferation of dumb, young girls having 2-4 dumb children out of wedlock? and the government endorsing such behavior, de facto, ex post facto).
Stop the excuses ! education is FREE in this great nation, and there is NO "admission charge" to spend time in the library. Get the hell off the "playground", and go do your homework as responsibly assigned/needed, shut up, deal with it, and problem solved for the most part.
FLUNK'em RAISE the Standards! that would have the desired effect for real achievement
Voice of pragmatism here.
1st bold: Hire them from where? There is already a shortage of competent teachers, people who are willing and able to teach. There are plenty of people who are able, but they choose other professions.
2nd bold: Replace them with whom? There is also a shortage of incompetent teachers. That is, people who are willing to teach, even though they aren't able. There are no applicants. Job fairs go unattended.
Have any ideas?
Last edited by lhpartridge; 05-11-2023 at 04:09 PM..
Reason: formatting; add link
1st bold: Hire them from where? There is already a shortage of competent teachers, people who are willing and able to teach. There are plenty of people who are able, but they choose other professions.
2nd bold: Replace them with whom? There is also a shortage of incompetent teachers. That is, people who are willing to teach, even though they aren't able. There are no applicants. Job fairs go unattended.
Have any ideas?
Why would anyone want to?
The money can be solid, but it also isn't that great for what you have to deal with. You're constantly under attack from political entities ravaging school boards. Parents with entitled children constantly nagging you at what they can do better even though they haven't turned in an assignment since January. In middle school and up, you have to constantly be on alert for children in distress who might shoot up the school casually.
You have to absolutely love what you do, love helping kids learn (even if they are ungrateful or lazy). How many people can genuinely say that? Many of our fellow older posters resent young people as it is. If we ever have children, we would never steer them towards this career path. Awful career option in almost every way imaginable, perhaps with some exceptions at the elementary level where the children are still innocent and earnest.
The money can be solid, but it also isn't that great for what you have to deal with. You're constantly under attack from political entities ravaging school boards. Parents with entitled children constantly nagging you at what they can do better even though they haven't turned in an assignment since January. In middle school and up, you have to constantly be on alert for children in distress who might shoot up the school casually.
You have to absolutely love what you do, love helping kids learn (even if they are ungrateful or lazy). How many people can genuinely say that? Many of our fellow older posters resent young people as it is. If we ever have children, we would never steer them towards this career path. Awful career option in almost every way imaginable, perhaps with some exceptions at the elementary level where the children are still innocent and earnest.
I was going to add that low pay and poor working conditions are two of the main reasons that so few people attend the teacher job fairs. Why would they?
I've always said that you can't run schools with martyrs and missionaries. I accepted those as the trade-off for teaching the children. But most people want to be financially comfortable and be able to pay for their kids' education, own a home, save for retirement, and even (!) go on family vacations.
The irony of me being a French teacher who couldn't afford to go to France every year was not lost on me.
I was going to add that low pay and poor working conditions are two of the main reasons that so few people attend the teacher job fairs. Why would they?
I've always said that you can't run schools with martyrs and missionaries. I accepted those as the trade-off for teaching the children. But most people want to be financially comfortable and be able to pay for their kids' education, own a home, save for retirement, and even (!) go on family vacations.
The irony of me being a French teacher who couldn't afford to go to France every year was not lost on me.
Well there's a lot of "chiefs" in schools now that weren't there before.
At one school I reported to the Math Curriculum Coach who reported to the Math Dept head who reported to the school Curriculum Administrator who reported to the Principal. This was middle school.
I was working from a grant for the school for 1 year for math remediation. There was no academic interaction with them; it was all strictly about the paperwork required for the grant money.
Another school I worked at had Curriculum Coaches at each school and then one at the District level when all the while the curriculum was posted on the state website and that's what we had to use.
There are now layers of people between the teacher and the principal.
Imagine what teachers could make in salary if you got rid of them all ? Because they didn't always be there.
Well there's a lot of "chiefs" in schools now that weren't there before.
At one school I reported to the Math Curriculum Coach who reported to the Math Dept head who reported to the school Curriculum Administrator who reported to the Principal. This was middle school.
I was working from a grant for the school for 1 year for math remediation. There was no academic interaction with them; it was all strictly about the paperwork required for the grant money.
Another school I worked at had Curriculum Coaches at each school and then one at the District level when all the while the curriculum was posted on the state website and that's what we had to use.
There are now layers of people between the teacher and the principal.
Imagine what teachers could make in salary if you got rid of them all ? Because they didn't always be there.
The crazy thing is that none of them actually teach.
There are two kinds of school employees. Those who live by the bell and those who can in all honesty ask "What period is this?"
That doesn't usually matter to the interventionists, the curriculum coordinators, the departmental consultants, ad nauseam, ad infinitum. But they all give classroom teachers additional duties that they have to fulfill in addition to their very well-defined teaching time. And of course you can't do it during your planning period, because you usually have meetings then instead of being able to get the work done to get ready for ... the next class period!
My school is going through this right now. I have conflicted thoughts/feelings but I can report a few things.
1. Yes, I have fewer students failing than ever before.
2. Those students are not getting As, they are squeaking by with Ds.
3. I also have fewer As than ever since students must rely on summarize assessments and don't have all of those little participation, behavior, or homework grades to boos their B test score up to an A overall.
4. This is exactly what "Grading for Equity" (the book that kicked off this movement) suggested would happen but it doesn't seem to be what admin was hoping for.
5. I can assure you that the actual performance/knowledge/intelligence of my students is about the same as it ever was.
I've long held that grades are an odd construction. They are supposed to be both a measurement and an incentive, but you can't devise something to fulfill both roles. This experiment has only reinforced my view that grades are a fundamentally broken system.
I'm glad you're pointing out that the students who are benefitting from this policy aren't getting much of real value out of it...a D rather than an F. As I said earlier -- big whop. I don't think Charlie is now getting D's will probably end up a brain surgeon since he still near the bottom of totem pole.
The A situation is interesting.
Grades can be a weird thing. In my school a parent came in and complained about an English essay assignment on which her son got a 79%. As principal, I backed up the teacher and kept the grade at 79%. But after the parent left I asked the teacher, "On an essay, how exactly do you come up with a percentage grade?" And the teacher couldn't answer the question.
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