Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The peace of the occupied. Having the NKVD, Stasi, KGB etc. kick down the occasional door in Eastern Europe doesn't really affect anyone. Anyone who counts, anyway.
Are you familiar with Hobbes' Leviathan? The basic argument is that humans are ****ty people who would murder each other if there wasn't a government to stop them. Thus the only way to have world peace is to have a single omnipotent global government(Leviathan).
I have no interest in defending the Soviet Union, but Americans are spied upon by their government. The justice system is weaponized against them. The FBI infiltrates organizations and covertly encourages and even commits violence/crime to justify shutting them down or bankrupting them in expensive court cases. And don't get me started on the propaganda, indoctrination, legislation that penalizes whatever the government doesn't like. And other "western" countries are even worse.
As bad as these things might sound, if the government didn't do these things, this ****hole would fall apart.
It's pretty much the same today, and for some reason both US progressives and right-wingers agree on one thing: The Ukrainians should just roll over and give up their country, for the sake of peace.
Ironically, I'm not pro-peace. That isn't to say that I'm pro-war either. I prefer peace, but I don't put excessive value on it. Reminds me of the Ronald Reagan speech "Time for choosing". Where he mentioned "Peace at any price", "Better red than dead", and "Rather live on my knees than die on my feet".
If Ukraine was a good war, I would support it. But Ukraine is not fighting for their country. Ukraine is fighting for American hegemony and to maintain control over an unwilling people. The truth is, Ukraine was never in any danger of losing their country if they had actually wanted peace. Russia would have been perfectly happy with a neutral Ukraine forever.
Last edited by Redshadowz; 09-24-2023 at 10:56 AM..
Are you familiar with Hobbes' Leviathan? The basic argument is that humans are ****ty people who would murder each other if there wasn't a government to stop them. Thus the only way to have world peace is to have a single omnipotent global government(Leviathan).
The slight humming sound after you clicked on that is Hobbes spinning in his grave. There's a rather huge span between "man must be governed" and "one single omnipotent global government". Also he wrote in the middle of a bloody, destructive civil war. Skews a man's perspective somewhat. And don't get me started on his Christian philosophy being shoe-horned in.
Quote:
I have no interest in defending the Soviet Union, but...
The word "but" sorta erases the preceding words.
Government is necessary. The Soviet Union was a totalitarian sh.thole. Those two statements are not in contradiction.
Will just have to wait to see. We heard these lines before. You know, "once Ukraine gets X weapon" the tide will turn and they will win." There is no game changer weapon. The Russians have an answer for everything. The fact the U.S. is supplying these now is making me wonder if the war is just about a lost cause.
The tide did turn. We argue about the Ukrainian not the Russian offensives
The slight humming sound after you clicked on that is Hobbes spinning in his grave. There's a rather huge span between "man must be governed" and "one single omnipotent global government".
He is referring to the "state of nature". Men are in a state of nature until they are under a government. The governments of the world are effectively in a state of nature with each other. Thus the only way to solve the state of nature problem is to have everyone under the same government.
I'm pretty sure that is the logic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA
The word "but" sorta erases the preceding words. Government is necessary. The Soviet Union was a totalitarian sh.thole. Those two statements are not in contradiction.
The point I was making is, the Soviet Union was a Leviathan that maintained peace and stability through government bureaucracies that in many cases exist in western countries. Without a Leviathan, everything falls apart. Humans are not naturally cooperative(beyond their family/tribe). It takes a lot of effort to hold countries together. Especially diverse countries.
I agree, we need to put funding the Ukraine war on some kind of national referendum. Maybe it can be bundled with next presidential election.
I would vote to keep Ukraine funding at a max of 25 billion a year, and it maxes out after 4 years (100 billion). So if the war is still going after 4 years, we can all vote on it again in another referendum.
No more congress people just putting it on the American CC. And I want clear indications of what we will CUT to make room for this budget. Maybe we cut some other pentagon programs. But no more running up the deficit.
Pretty soon we won't be worrying about Ukraine losing their country, but us losing ours. Interest is already 11% of GDP and climbing. I believe some of our politicians figure they will be long dead when this spending scheme unravels.
Look here, unlike some of the other zickheads who post here with their "ra ra Russia awesome" rectal effluent, I know you're not an idiot. So why are you writing this stupid bs, it's just blatantly ridiculous.
Every single word was true. Why do you think Victoria Nuland went to Kiev? And John McCain, and Lindsey Graham, and all the other hawks. Do you know what George Soros said about Ukraine? Or Wolfowitz? Or Brzezinski? Would this war have happened if not for America pushing NATO expansion? What did the author of the containment strategy during the Cold War, George Kennan, think about NATO expansion? What did Angela Merkel think about NATO expansion? What did William Burns say about NATO expansion?
Russia did not want Ukraine used as what John Mearsheimer calls a "Bulwark on Russia's border". Especially since a large part of Ukraine is Russian-speaking and culturally/ethnically Russian. Had Ukraine wanted peace(IE neutrality), there would be no war. Its territorial integrity would have been restored. It would have NEVER have been in any danger.
Even Alexey Arestovych admitted as much. If you don't know who Arestovych is, he worked for Zelensky as an advisor in the "Office of the President of Ukraine". He got fired because he admitted that a Ukrainian missile had hit(or caused a Russian missile to hit) an apartment building and killed a bunch of people. Which contradicted the official story.
Anyway, what is the National Endowment for Democracy? What does it do? What role did America(and the EU and Georgia) play in Euromaidan? In short, what was America's plan for Ukraine? What is this war really about?
Combat footage posted on Sept. 22 shows UKR armored vehicles operating slightly beyond RU fighting positions near #Verbove, indicating continued UKR progress in deploying more heavy equipment beyond RU's triune belt of the anti-vehicle ditch, dragon’s teeth, & fighting positions.
A tactical breach with light infantry is one thing, bringing in your armor is a whole other ballgame.
One analyst pointed out, the purpose of Bakhmut is to keep Russian forces tied down. If Bakhmut falls it will be a terrible message to Russians, and if it doesn't then Russian forces will lose elsewhere.
My own hope is that the supply lines to and through Bakhmut will be cut. The winter of '23-'24 would be for Russians like Washington at Valley Forge.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
