Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 209 40.04%
No 263 50.38%
Unsure 50 9.58%
Voters: 522. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-09-2022, 11:53 AM
 
51,802 posts, read 26,130,999 times
Reputation: 38131

Advertisements

"Dots need to be connected."

Truer words were never spoken.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-09-2022, 12:00 PM
 
19,276 posts, read 27,986,171 times
Reputation: 20361
Crowd, on average, has 2 week events memory. Things are forgotten quickly as, new "breaking" events are tossed at minds daily. So no one pays attention to how things are developed according to a certain plan.
So GB was permitted to mess with its historical pond of Ukraine/Poland/Azerbaidjan until Johnson started yakking about nuclear weapons give to them. What happened next? Gone. Polish prime m - gone. Scholz on verge of same. You could clearly see, how US/GB relationships changed few weeks ago. Then, bemm, bemmm....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2022, 12:27 PM
bu2
 
24,314 posts, read 15,150,265 times
Reputation: 13178
https://www.realcleardefense.com/art...ia_841534.html

Pretty good read on the risks of an expanded war. Most of these pieces I read are hysterical claims that war between NATO and Russia is a serious risk with every weapon we sell. This is a much more balanced piece, noting that it is entirely improbable but not a zero chance.


"The Biden administration has worked hard to keep Russia from treating America as a co-combatant in Ukraine. But that doesn’t mean NATO isn’t deeply embroiled in the fight. The level of support is extraordinary and increasing, including sanctions, intelligence sharing, weapons transfers, and money. Add to that the ever-heightening political rhetoric: “The United States is in this to win it,” one US Congressman tweeted from Kyiv.


But nothing in international law stops Russia from changing its mind and treating the United States as an active party to the conflict. Instead of providing bright red lines, the conventions are fuzzy and subjective. The fact that Vladimir Putin hasn’t deemed NATO a co-combatant comes from a mix of murky international norms, strategic calculation, and luck...."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2022, 02:00 PM
 
21,422 posts, read 7,537,983 times
Reputation: 13233
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
...

Of course this type of Ukraine, this kind of the government can't be trusted from the Russian point of view.
Ukraine has never attacked Russia, but you are claiming it can't be trusted.

Russia has attacked Ukraine twice, and Georgia once as well. All this plus international meddling in the elections of other countries, hacking infrastructure and engaging in psy-ops to de-stabilize other countries.

From this we can see that it is Russia which can not be trusted and deserves international censure. The facts are in.

The Russian "point of view" has proven essentially bogus and their opinion has no value.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2022, 02:28 PM
 
19,276 posts, read 27,986,171 times
Reputation: 20361
Russian special forces destroyed three Polish mercenaries in the Kharkov region, six were wounded

Russian special forces destroyed three Polish mercenaries near the village of Dolgenkoe in the Kharkov region.
Lenta.ru
An officer of one of the units of the special forces of the Western Military District said that the stronghold of the Ukrainian military was found on the outskirts of the forest south of the village of Dolgenkoye.
REN TV
The official representative of the Russian Defense Ministry, Lieutenant-General Igor Konashenkov, said earlier in the day that the armed forces of Ukraine are recruiting prisoners to the brigade in Kharkov due to losses and desertion.
Gazeta.Ru
According to preliminary information, there were from 30 to 50 Poles.
TASS


Zelensky fired Ukraine's ambassador to Germany

MelnykThe document

was published on the website of the President's office.
RBC
President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky dismissed Ukrainian ambassadors in Hungary, Norway, the Czech Republic and India.
RT in Russian
Ukrainian Ambassador to Germany Andriy Melnyk is known for making harsh statements about the German authorities more than once.
RIA Novosti
Ambassador to India also represented Ukraine in Nepal, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and the Maldives.
RT in Russian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2022, 02:32 PM
 
19,276 posts, read 27,986,171 times
Reputation: 20361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
Ukraine has never attacked Russia, but you are claiming it can't be trusted.

Russia has attacked Ukraine twice, and Georgia once as well. All this plus international meddling in the elections of other countries, hacking infrastructure and engaging in psy-ops to de-stabilize other countries.

From this we can see that it is Russia which can not be trusted and deserves international censure. The facts are in.

The Russian "point of view" has proven essentially bogus and their opinion has no value.

That is not strictly true.
Ukrainian forces joined Karl The Great and Swedish army during his invasion of Russian empire, under Getman Mazepa.
Also, Ukrainian Rebellion Army and Organization of Ukrainain Nationalists allied with German invasion.
So to say "never" is not quite correct. There's HISTORY between the countries. And peoples.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2022, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee, WI
3,375 posts, read 2,943,759 times
Reputation: 3004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
Russia has no authority to attack anyone outside it's borders. Russia broke international law, and Putin is a war criminal.

Ukraine has always had problems, since way back in the Soviet era. When it became independent it had the same corruption issues Russia had to contend with. Oligarchs were fleecing the general public and becoming very wealthy on the backs of the Ukrainian people.

Any country has authority to attack anyone they want and think they can reasonably get away with.

Examples? Great Britain attacking Argentina, China attacking Vietnam, USA attacking Yugoslavia (Serbia), Iraq twice and Afghanistan. So, Russia is much beyond the curve here.... It can push some Japs to the sea (since they still think WW2 is not over and are technically at war with Russia), some Lithuania (for failure to honor its goods transition treaty that was tied to border recognition treaty) and Moldova (just because Putin likes their vines, I guess). And it will still be lesser number of wars than USA started in 20th century...


There is also no international law prohibiting wars (and "special military operation" has actually a legal meaning and is well-defined in United Nations treaties).


And Russians do anything in their power to obey Geneva conventions. And even if they did not, that would mean pretty much nothing, since Ukrainians also do not obey the same conventions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2022, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee, WI
3,375 posts, read 2,943,759 times
Reputation: 3004
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
That is not strictly true.
Ukrainian forces joined Karl The Great and Swedish army during his invasion of Russian empire, under Getman Mazepa.
Also, Ukrainian Rebellion Army and Organization of Ukrainain Nationalists allied with German invasion.
So to say "never" is not quite correct. There's HISTORY between the countries. And peoples.

Half of Modern Ukraine is actually historic Russia, inhabited with Russian-speaking and Russia-aligned politically. Donbass, Kharkov, Dnepr, Odessa, Crimea were never Ukrainian in the first place...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2022, 04:50 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,998 posts, read 18,999,463 times
Reputation: 35641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
Ukraine has never attacked Russia, but you are claiming it can't be trusted.

Russia has attacked Ukraine twice, and Georgia once as well. All this plus international meddling in the elections of other countries, hacking infrastructure and engaging in psy-ops to de-stabilize other countries.

From this we can see that it is Russia which can not be trusted and deserves international censure. The facts are in.

The Russian "point of view" has proven essentially bogus and their opinion has no value.
What year did world history start for you ?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2022, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,817 posts, read 2,769,294 times
Reputation: 3388
Todays Update....Sounds like Putin has his hands full with the milbloggers questioning his authority and judgment.

https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...essment-july-9

Quote:
Russian-backed occupation authorities in Kharkiv Oblast stated that Kharkiv Oblast is an “inalienable part of Russian land,” indicating that the Kremlin likely intends to annex part or all of Kharkiv Oblast.

The Kremlin has likely used a leaked letter from mothers demanding the ban of journalist activity on the frontlines to promote self-censorship among pro-Russian milbloggers and war correspondents.

The Kremlin faces challenges directly censoring pro-Russian milbloggers and war correspondents but will likely continue to look for opportunities to promote self-censorship.

Moscow has not demonstrated the ability to compel Telegram to delete or control the content of channels, and so would likely have to threaten individual milbloggers with legal or extra-legal action to stop them from publishing on that platform. Russia could prevent war correspondents publishing in regular media outlets from writing stories or deprive them of access to the front lines. But both the milbloggers and the war correspondents are explicitly pro-war and patriotic, often ultra-nationalist, with large followings likely concentrated among Russian President Vladimir Putin’s key supporters. Threatening or suppressing them directly could backfire if Putin’s motivation in doing so is to stop them from undermining support for the war or questioning authority. Actions such as the use of this leaked and possibly faked letter to stoke self-censorship or induce pressure from the readers of these blogs and articles toward self-censorship may be an effort to achieve the Kremlin’s desired effects without the risk of having them backfire.
Key Takeaways

Quote:
Russian forces continued to launch unsuccessful assaults northwest of Slovyansk and conducted offensive operations east of Siversk from the Lysychansk area.

Russian forces continued localized attacks northwest of Kharkiv City, likely in an effort to defend Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) in the area.

Russian forces continue to face personnel and equipment shortages, relying on old armored personnel carriers and launching new recruitment campaigns.

Russian forces continued to set conditions for the annexation of Donbas, Kharkiv Oblast, and southern Ukraine.
Activity in Russian-occupied Areas

Quote:
Russian occupation authorities continued consolidating control over occupied territories and setting conditions for the potential annexation of additional Ukrainian territory on July 9. The Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) Health Ministry announced the launch of a tracking system that allows civilians to find patients in LNR-controlled hospitals.[36] LNR and Russian officials will likely use this tracking system to compel civilians to cooperate with LNR authorities. Zaporizhia Oblast Military Administration Head Oleksandr Starukh reported that Russian officials are increasing attempts to force Zaporizhia Oblast government officials, medical staff, educators, and farmers to cooperate with occupational authorities, likely to prevent further Ukrainian partisan attacks on Russian rail infrastructure in and around Melitopol, Zaporizhia Oblast.[37] Russian Telegram channel Rybar reported that Russian forces established an occupation administration in Severodonetsk, Luhansk Oblast, that will focus on supplying and distributing water throughout the city.[38] The LNR Internal Affairs Ministry announced the appointment of former Deputy Governor of Sevastopol Ivan Kusov as the LNR education minister on July 8, continuing the observed pattern of Russian forces appointing Russian officials to positions in occupied Ukraine
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top