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The US definitively won both Iraq and Afghanistan wars. We lost the occupation afterwards. As for Vietnam, that was over 50 years ago. Doesn't matter.
Win what? the B.S. propaganda. So Vietnam doesn't matter now. How convenient
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains
Ukraine is fighting for Russians who want to be part of Ukraine and voted to be part of Ukraine. They are also fighting for Ukrainians who speak Ukrianian or Russian, and have culture and history.
Not in Crimea or Donbass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains
This is another inconsistency in your argument. You talk about the US losing wars when we have boots on the ground, but now you are acknowledging that this is a different type of war, with no boots on the ground. But you say Ukraine losing it unless the US sends troops.
Pick an argument and stick with it. Does the US send troops, and lose because they sent troops (your argument, not mine), or does the war only get won if they US sends troops (again, your argument, not mine)
Do you often make "heads I win, tails you lose" arguments like this? It does not show any level of intellectual integrity.
Integrity? LOL wrong word.
You think this war lasts without the huge military aid from the U.S. and the West? I never said the main reason the U.S. failed because "troops on the ground", that's you assuming since it's a lot more than just "putting troops on the ground" but unless you are a math genius with ratio and Robocops fighting for Ukraine , I don't know how Ukraine wins this with just their bodies. That's 1 take in this conflict.
You think the West is going to win this war by just aiding Ukraine? is that your argument? then you have been drinking the propaganda kool aid from the West.
Win what? the B.S. propaganda. So Vietnam doesn't matter now. How convenient
Not in Crimea or Donbass.
Integrity? LOL wrong word.
You think this war lasts without the huge military aid from the U.S. and the West? I never said the main reason the U.S. failed because "troops on the ground", that's you assuming since it's a lot more than just "putting troops on the ground" but unless you are a math genius with ratio and Robocops fighting for Ukraine , I don't know how Ukraine wins this with just their bodies. That's 1 take in this conflict.
You think the West is going to win this war by just aiding Ukraine? is that your argument? then you have been drinking the propaganda kool aid from the West.
Wars are no longer won by the guy with the biggest army. That has actually never been the case, although military size is relevant. Technology, morale, equipment and training all matter more.
Yes, people in Donbass region and Crimea voted to be part of Ukraine when the USSR broke up.
You claim to know kill ratios, but the evidence you provided here previously is pathetically weak. The fact is that nobody on this board has the information necessary to state that accurately, and neither Ukraine nor Russia is going to release that info. As with all other wars, we will know this a few years after the shooting stops.
No, vietnam doesn't count. Any more than the massive US victory in WW1, WW2, or other places counts. Those were different times, different wars, different militaries. Things change. Look around, we are not in 1972 any more. I am not wearing polyesther bellbottoms and listening to the Grateful Dead on vinyl, neither are you.
Why would a Ukrainian state official be communicating in any other language?
That makes no sense.
Because that's how it ALWAYS was.
Both languages were in use, on official level, since MORE THAN HALF of UKRAINE was Russian-speaking.
It was never HOMOGENOUS for the last 300 years, ( as much as "Russia proper," linguistically-speaking,) so both languages were used in different regions, often - interchangeably.
It was Ukrainian specialty, and no one ( except for Ukrainian Nationalists from the Westernmost regions) saw a need to change anything.
Only when Nulandites ( read American government) stuck their nose in Ukrainian affairs, the Bandera adepts from Galicia regions were able to enforce Ukrainian language on everyone, and to destroy Russian Orthodox church that was there from the days of creation of the Russian state back in the 1000ies, ( part of which are now - Ukrainian territories.)
American government made sure even of that one. (Google a thing or two about Sam Brownback and his trip to Constantinople.)
And of course it's only *logical* - only turning Ukraine in this pseudo-homogenous state ( that it never was,) could Nulandites use it effectively as a ram against Moscow.
Russians are well-aware of it all, and THAT'S what makes this war and its outcome so unpredictable, and any peace negotiations practically impossible.
And that's why so many people are ending up dead over there now - military and civilians alike.
Both languages were in use, on official level, since MORE THAN HALF of UKRAINE was Russian-speaking.
It was never HOMOGENOUS for the last 300 years, ( as much as "Russia proper, linguistically-speaking,) so both languages were used in different regions, often - interchangeably.
It was Ukrainian specialty, and no one ( except for Ukrainian Nationalists from the Westernmost regions) saw a need to change anything.
Only when Nulandites ( read American government) stuck their nose in Ukrainian affairs, the Bandera adepts from Galicia regions were able to enforce Ukrainian language on everyone, and to destroy Russian Orthodox church that was there from the days of creation of the Russian state back in the 1000ies, ( part of which are now - Ukrainian territories.)
American government made sure even of that one. (Google a thing or two about Sam Brownback and his trip to Constantinople.)
And of course it's only *logical* - only turning Ukraine in this pseudo-homogenous state ( that it never was,) could Nulandites use it effectively as a ram against Moscow.
Russians are well-aware of it all, and THAT'S what makes this war and its outcome so unpredictable, and any peace negotiations practically impossible.
Got it. So the alleged fact (might be true, might not, don't care) that a sovereign nation decides to make one official language rather than 2 makes it ok for Russia to invade and kidnap 6000 children?
Well, that's all right then. After all, Russia couldn't reasonably stand back and let another country conduct official business in only one language without taking their children. I see why you think the war is completely justified.
Both languages were in use, on official level, since MORE THAN HALF of UKRAINE was Russian-speaking.
It was never HOMOGENOUS for the last 300 years, ( as much as "Russia proper," linguistically-speaking,) so both languages were used in different regions, often - interchangeably.
It was Ukrainian specialty, and no one ( except for Ukrainian Nationalists from the Westernmost regions) saw a need to change anything.
Only when Nulandites ( read American government) stuck their nose in Ukrainian affairs, the Bandera adepts from Galicia regions were able to enforce Ukrainian language on everyone, and to destroy Russian Orthodox church that was there from the days of creation of the Russian state back in the 1000ies, ( part of which are now - Ukrainian territories.)
American government made sure even of that one. (Google a thing or two about Sam Brownback and his trip to Constantinople.)
And of course it's only *logical* - only turning Ukraine in this pseudo-homogenous state ( that it never was,) could Nulandites use it effectively as a ram against Moscow.
Russians are well-aware of it all, and THAT'S what makes this war and its outcome so unpredictable, and any peace negotiations practically impossible.
And that's why so many people are ending up dead over there now - military and civilians alike.
So being Russia was official language at some point, the fact that country mandated another language as official gives them the right to attack? It also gives them the right to attack civilians?
Got it. So the alleged fact (might be true, might not, don't care) that a sovereign nation decides to make one official language rather than 2 makes it ok for Russia to invade and kidnap 6000 children?
Well, that's all right then. After all, Russia couldn't reasonably stand back and let another country conduct official business in only one language without taking their children. I see why you think the war is completely justified.
There was no such decision made by the sovereign nation of Ukraine.
The sovereign Ukraine was bi-lingual for 30 years.
It's when it lost its sovereignty to Washington - that's when those language rules were enforced in Ukraine.
That screeching noise you hear is the goalposts moving. We have gone from Biden not being able to get any support, to the support only comes from Europe, America and countries occupied by American troops. This is ludicrous of course, because you another way of saying this is that Ukraine is only being supported by its closest neighbors, the most powerful countries on earth, and the largest economies on earth.
1) I wasn't the person you were originally talking to. I just saw your list of countries and laughed.
2) Ukraine is supported by most of its neighbors. As for the most powerful countries on Earth. The top three are America, Russia, and China. Of the largest economies, two out of the top 5 defacto support Russia. But more importantly, the percentage of the world's population that defacto supports Russia is probably 75% or more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains
Then, unsupported insinuations of control and bribery. Even if true (remember, you have presented exactly zero supporting evidence), I would not care much. Russia is monstrously wrong, and your lame attempts at misdirection to irrelevant points does not change that.
Paradoxically, it was the United States who wanted this war. I know that might be difficult to understand, being that Russia invaded Ukraine, but if you understood geopolitics, it would make perfect sense. I have no interest in explaining how the world actually works, or the history of the Ukrainian conflict from 1989 until today, or how the United States overthrows foreign governments. But here is something I wrote back in 2014 on this forum.
Keep in mind, I was initially supportive of the Euromaidan protests, and I rather enjoyed watching Right-Sector bash the police over the head with 2x4's. But I opposed everything that came after. Ukraine went from freedom-fighters to tyrants overnight. It was like watching the French Revolution and then the ensuing terror by Robespierre.
All Ukraine had to do was be reasonable and there would be no war. I know you may not understand this, but I care far more for the Ukrainian people than pretty much any of these virtue-signalers putting Ukrainian flags on their avatars. I don't believe Zelensky or his oligarchs care about the Ukrainian people at all.
Even if Ukraine could win this war, Ukraine will have completely destroyed itself. Ukrainian demographics were already some of the worst in the entire world. There won't be any Ukrainians left after this war is over. And regardless of the outcome, Ukraine will have to import ten million people to rebuild. Ukraine will cease to be Ukraine in anything but name.
The reality is, if America and the so-called Ukrainian nationalists wanted to completely wipe Ukraine off the map, they're doing it. Had Ukraine simply declared neutrality, agreed to greater autonomy for the Donbass, and let Crimea go(which is 99% Russian-speaking). There would be no war, and all these mothers would still have their sons.
Instead, Ukraine chose the path of retaking Crimea by force because America promised their corrupt leaders unlimited money if they send the Ukrainian people to fight Russia.
If these so-called Ukrainian leaders actually cared for the Ukrainian people, they wouldn't behave as they are. I believe all of these ringleaders are liars and profiteers who will just move to the French Riviera with all their riches at the end of the war. I hope every single one of them gets what they deserve.
Last edited by Redshadowz; 02-26-2023 at 11:55 AM..
Mm hm. Which according to you, is justification for genocide.
Ok. Heil Putin I guess.
Ukrainian people, in the Ukrainian nation, speaking the Ukrainian language.
To much of an insult to Russian pride.
‘…In 2020, a set of amendments to the Russian constitution was approved by the State Duma[24] and later the Federation Council.[25] One of the amendments is to enshrine Russian as the “language of the state-forming nationality” and the Russian people as the ethnic group that created the nation...”
Wars are no longer won by the guy with the biggest army. That has actually never been the case, although military size is relevant. Technology, morale, equipment and training all matter more..
Basics still applies. So if technology, morale and equipment and training matters more then Russia has a huge advantage over Ukraine. The only reason this conflict has lasted over a year is because of the mass military aid and funds by the U.S. and West. Without that this would have been over by now.
if technology, morale and equipment and training matters more then the U.S. has a huge problem since it took 20 years to fight in an unwinnable war in Afghanistan like Vietnam to bail out at then end.
Tell you what, if Russia and Ukraine are still fighting after 20 years then I will admit Russia lost. Not after 1 year but the West propaganda is selling it to keep aiding Ukraine and crickets from you. You only response to the opposing view.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains
Yes, people in Donbass region and Crimea voted to be part of Ukraine when the USSR broke up.
and now they want to break from Ukraine, your point? Should We ignore present intentions from referendums for 33 years ago? California and Texas belong to Spain, then Mexico, then they wanted to get out and join the US. Should We have forced Texas and California to stick to the original deal?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains
You claim to know kill ratios, but the evidence you provided here previously is pathetically weak. The fact is that nobody on this board has the information necessary to state that accurately, and neither Ukraine nor Russia is going to release that info. As with all other wars, we will know this a few years after the shooting stops.
so you feel the same way from the propaganda from the West that Russia is losing this war and Ukraine winning but for some weird reason you have a problem with my post and call it lack of "integrity"
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains
No, vietnam doesn't count. Any more than the massive US victory in WW1, WW2, or other places counts. Those were different times, different wars, different militaries. Things change. Look around, we are not in 1972 any more. I am not wearing polyesther bellbottoms and listening to the Grateful Dead on vinyl, neither are you.
That's your opinion since you refuse to see a pattern and the bigger picture. You think foreign policy is about wearing polyesther bellbottoms and listening to the Grateful Dead on vinyl or the current fashion? You think the Vietnam war and the current wars were about "democracy". It was about world order and world control.
So being Russia was official language at some point, the fact that country mandated another language as official gives them the right to attack? It also gives them the right to attack civilians?
The TRUE story is even sadder than this.
The enforcement of Ukrainian language is a tip of the iceberg, because with it, new racial ideas are enforced, and a lot of other racial garbage, that serves as a foundation of this "new, glorious Ukrainian state," that promotes hatred and aggression towards the neighboring Russia.
These are just the samples of their inane "studies," the kind of stuff the Nationalists brainwashed their population with, for the last eight years, when they finally got the chance.
So as the Nazi state of Germany came up with their own ideology in order to justify whatever was done there, so the Ukrainian Nazi come up with their own theories, why Ukraine is the "greatest," why it has any right to kill "second sort of people" in Donbass and so on.
And so even though I don't have much good to say about the current Russian gov. in general, they were right to bring Ukrainian school textbooks to the UN meeting, pointing out that "Emmanuel Macron should be proud, because according to what *proud Ukrainians* are teaching their children now - French Galls are the descendants of the Ukrainian Galicia."
I kid you not.
So the issue of enforcement of Ukrainian language on better-educated South-Easterners is bigger than just language itself.
It's what it brings with it.
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