Why is Biden still allowing flights from India with almost 400,000 new COVID cases daily, vaccine resistant mutants? (illegal, Pelosi)
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Doesn't mean it's mutated in the same way to be resistant to the vaccine. It's an unknown at this point. So an assertion either way is wrong.
No, it's not, the scientists looking at the mutants have found that they have a lot in common with the ones that are giving resistance to strains like the South African one and some others that are resistant to vaccines too (can't remember which one, Nigerian I think). And they can reasonably predict the 3-d structures of the viral coat that are caused by these mutants, and figure out the antibodies don't bind anymore, it's what's being talked about in several of the articles. Even without this, it's just stupid to be allowing in mass travel and flights from a country with variants that have so many mutations, even if you assume the best Biden is playing Russian roulette with the US population by still allowing unrestricted flights from India. It would be a reasonable and common-sense precaution then to block flights from India just as Canada, the UAE and Britain have been doing. That's why it makes no sense that Biden and the Democrats so far are refusing to block flights from India and putting hundreds of millions of Americans needlessly at risk, and exposes the hypocrisy of their previous claims to care so much about Americans' public health. If they really cared, they'd be taking action about this.
No, it's not, the scientists looking at the mutants have found that they have a lot in common with the ones that are giving resistance to strains like the South African one and some others that are resistant to vaccines too (can't remember which one, Nigerian I think). And they can reasonably predict the 3-d structures of the viral coat that are caused by these mutants, and figure out the antibodies don't bind anymore, it's what's being talked about in several of the articles. Even without this, it's just stupid to be allowing in mass travel and flights from a country with variants that have so many mutations, even if you assume the best Biden is playing Russian roulette with the US population by still allowing unrestricted flights from India. It would be a reasonable and common-sense precaution then to block flights from India just as Canada, the UAE and Britain have been doing. That's why it makes no sense that Biden and the Democrats so far are refusing to block flights from India and putting hundreds of millions of Americans needlessly at risk, and exposes the hypocrisy of their previous claims to care so much about Americans' public health. If they really cared, they'd be taking action about this.
As you saw, I already agreed we should shut down travel.
Just disagreeing with your assertion that has not been proven yet.
Your article also says this:
"Singapore researchers have done some work trying to link the mutations with clinical outcomes and transmissibility and have found no link between more severity or more transmissibility with newer mutants compared with the original lineages of SARS-CoV2," Tambyah said.
Other scientists studying COVID have detected quadruple- and quintuple-mutants in samples as well, he said, without it necessarily affecting how well vaccines work.
"There is good data suggesting that the immune system, not just antibodies, can respond to multiple different mutants," Tambyah said.
Paul Tambyah, a professor of medicine at the National University of Singapore, said the good news is that there is no concrete evidence that the triple mutation is deadlier or more transmissible. "Singapore researchers have done some work trying to link the mutations with clinical outcomes and transmissibility and have found no link between more severity or more transmissibility with newer mutants compared with the original lineages of SARS-CoV2," Tambyah said.
Other scientists studying COVID have detected quadruple- and quintuple-mutants in samples as well, he said, without it necessarily affecting how well vaccines work. "There is good data suggesting that the immune system, not just antibodies, can respond to multiple different mutants," Tambyah said.
Corascant's summary:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corascant
the new double and triple mutants that are apparently making the vaccinations so far worthless and putting us right back where we were in like April 2020.
I thought Biden would be a leader on Covid!
Instead he's endangering Americans!
First, he lets in illegals who are infected and does nothing about it.
Now, he's not doing anything to stop travel from India into America.
What is wrong with this picture!!
He's an abject failure, and it is disgusting that he's doing n-o-t-h-i-n-g.
Nothing.
It isn't rose colored glasses to prefer you stick to the facts instead of manufacturing information as you see fit. Nowhere in your article did it say the India mutant covid virus renders current vaccines useless, yet that is what you announced in your post. Regarding Pfizer, https://www.medpagetoday.com/infecti...9vaccine/91895
"Topline results from a phase III clinical trial of 800 people in South Africa, where the variant is predominant, showed nine cases in the placebo group versus none among vaccine recipients, for a vaccine efficacy of 100%, albeit with a wide 95% confidence interval (lower bound 53.1%)."
Even if Pfizer is less effective versus South African variant, that does not allow you to conclude that this Indian variant must render current vaccines useless. You basically just made something up and stated it as fact, clearly the scientists in your article have no idea whether vaccines are less effective against the India mutant variant, and neither do you.
So you can say whatever pops into your imagination as fact but it doesn't matter since the main point is flights from India? I don't think so. Folks providing misinformation in these forums need to have the spotlight shone on them.
And once you again you dodge the question, shows your true colors. I'll lay it out for you real simple, you more than anyone else on this forum push the vaccines even on healthy Americans with an almost religious dogma and fervor, even if people raise modest rational questions about them you go into attack mode. (Ironically enough we ourselves will likely be getting vaccinated as high risk people but we question giving the timing and the idea of giving it to our kids and grandkids). You instantly get sanctimonious and moralizing about the vaccines as some kind of civic duty to protect public health. And yet when a thread points out an obvious public health threat requiring an even simpler intervention-- putting in a temporary ban on travel from hard hit India as even Canada, the UAE and Britain have-- suddenly you go completely silent.
What this shows to the rest of us especially independents, is that despite your pleas to public health that's not what's really behind all your loud shaming about the vaccines. It's about social control and politics for you and other liberals like you right now. A simple demonstration why, let's say that your delusions about these double or triple mutants from India were true and they were completely harmless. (Which is totally silly, why would they even have evolved if not to have resistance against human immune mechanisms? That's why viruses mutate and spread in the first place-- but let's just presume for now). Even if this fantasy were true, it would still make sense to ban travel from India like the UK, Canada and UAE have done as a simple precaution. And also because millions of Americans haven't been able to get vaccinated, and it's known for sure that these mutants are much more aggressive so they deserve protection.
So if you are claiming the "common good" of US public health as your basis to push these experimental mrna vaccines for COVID19, then by any common-sense conclusion, you would also be supporting a travel ban for India right now to protect US public health from these mutants and the high prevalence of the virus here. And yet you won't do this. What this tells us, again, is that "public health" for you is just a fig leaf. It's really about something else, likely social control and more and more, for liberals and Democrats these days, identity politics. (There was another thread with many liberals doing a love-in for George W. Bush due to his support for amnesty for illegal aliens-- even though he went against every other progressive position with his tax cuts for the rich, support for the IRaq war and crony capitalism that led to the financial crisis). You don't actually care about public health or protecting Americans, you care about control and scoring political points with new voters. Don't forget it's us independents who decide the elections in America, we voted for Obama and for Trump but right now, it's the liberals in America who've gone totally nuts with the social control and identity politics stands.
I thought Biden would be a leader on Covid!
Instead he's endangering Americans!
First, he lets in illegals who are infected and does nothing about it.
Now, he's not doing anything to stop travel from India into America.
What is wrong with this picture!!
He's an abject failure, and it is disgusting that he's doing n-o-t-h-i-n-g.
Nothing.
Because the left said its "racist" and "xenophobic" to do other wise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corascant
So now our local news is warning us about an "advisory" for travel to India, saying the country has now hit a new record for daily infections approaching almost 400,000 people a day, so many sick they're running out of oxygen, the virus is mutating like crazy and now India already has a double mutant and triple mutant that are resistant to the vaccines
Oh and even Britain, UAE and Canada are banning travel to and from India for a month even though they have millions of Indian immigrants there. And the USA? We have a mealy mouth "travel advisory" meekly begging Americans not to go to India, all the while every day thousands upon thousands of people from India pour into the USA or fly back and forth, bringing in the new double and triple mutants that are apparently making the vaccinations so far worthless and putting us right back where we were in like April 2020.
It's terrible what's happening in India and we sympathize with the people there, but just from basic public health common sense, where in the world are Joe Biden and the Democrats on this? Why haven't they put in a travel ban for India with this massive rise in infections and so many dangerous mutants, not only the ones already Id'd but apparently the new mutants constantly coming up? Oh that's right, it'd be "racist" to stop travel from India even though there's clear as day public health reason to halt travel now. Or maybe it's Big Tech companies like Apple, Google, Facebook, Amazon and Twitter that wants more cheap labor from India to keep displacing American tech workers through through H1B visas and drive salaries lower (or the housing market that loves mass immigration to drive up housing prices)? It's just straight insanity to be allowing flights in from India right now with what's going on. As bad as COVID crisis is in countries like France, Germany and Sweden they've taken the important first step by banning refugees and migrants and refusing flights from heavy infected countries like India or anywhere in Africa or the Middle East, for clear reasons of public health and lack of testing or good public health infrastructure in those places. Again even Canada and New Zealand are halting travel from India now despite all the Indians working there. Yet here in the US, thousands still fly in everyday and with the rate of mutation and all the people infected, India's now like a permanent reservoir for mutants resistant to the vaccines or other measures.
Do our "leaders" seriously not see the cynicism this is causing? They wonder why Americans are so impatient and resistant with all the mask mandates, lockdowns, demands that we take an experimental vaccine with new tech less than a year of testing, people in the US practically taking up arms at the very suggestion of vaccine passports or injecting this experimental barely tested concoction in our healthy kids and grandkids-- and then they turn around and run a policy so obviously negligent? It's stupid policies like leaving airports wide open to the most heavily infected country in the world, this that make Americans skeptical of all the hot air from officials in the United States. If Biden, the Democrats and Big Tech supporting neocon RINO's really cared about protecting the American people from COVID19, and believed all their loud claims about "herd immunity" and "keeping US hospitals from collapsing', they'd shut down travel from India right now.
But they don't, and they're allowing deadly new mutants to flood into the country and wreck any progress already made. That's why it's becoming more and more obvious to Americans that all these extreme COVID measures by US officials and big corporations were never about public health or protecting the public at all-- it's all about social control, breaking the power of American individuals and small business to impose power by large corporations, billionaires and government officials who "know better". That's why they love the idea of forcing even healthy young people to take an experimental vaccine with unknown long term effects for a disease that 99.99% of healthy people survive without problems (at least until now, who knows with these new mutants from India), because it can set precedent for then forcing Americans to take dozens of other potentially deadly, un-tested substances for the profits of crony capitalists who are good buddies with government officials. We questioned this before and at one point though it conspiracy talk, but with such blatantly dumb things like continuing to allow unrestricted flights from India, it's obvious the "conspiracists" were right. There's no other way to explain such obvious contradiction. Just in case it wasn't clear, we're independents and we've criticized officials of both parties before, but right now, it's liberals and Democrats in America who are going nuts with all their woke-ism, cancel culture and pushing Orwellian COVID "public health" policies on Americans while leaving the door wide open to flights from the world's most heavily infected place.
As you saw, I already agreed we should shut down travel.
Just disagreeing with your assertion that has not been proven yet.
Fair enough I guess, though if anything I feel like the actions by the UAE are giving a big hint that at least from perspective of the doctors and scientists who know the most about this, there is general agreement that the new Indian mutants are a deadly threat even to vaccinated people. The UAE now has the world's highest rate of vaccination even higher than Israel, close to 100%. If the Indian mutants didn't a threat, it seems they'd be less willing to close down travel since the UAE basically depends on labor from India. (I worked there on a project years ago and even then, guest workers from India and Bangladesh were basically the majority of the population, they literally keep the country running the way the UAE companies do it). But the UAE was one of the first countries to ban travel from India once their scientists started pouring into detail on the mutants. This seems to say the UAE scientists know the mutants likely are a big threat even to people who've gotten the vaccines, and since the UAE has been seeing more cases cropping up with the South African mutant breaking through immune systems of vaccinated people like Israel has, makes sense they'd want to be extra cautious about COVID mutants with even more mutations already showing evidence of infecting vaccinated people.
This example alone would seem to be more than enough to convince Biden and US officials of the need to take emergency measures and impose travel ban on India as a precaution and likely necessity to prevent this new strain from making the whole US vaccine program up to now useless. The South African strain is already doing this-- the only reason it hasn't done even more damage is it only recently arrived in the US, but it's a big reason even the Pfizer and Moderna CEO's are saying that the double dose vaccine will soon no longer be protective. How much more dangerous then to have multi-mutants from India? The really scary thing Imho is, these mutants actually do seem to be threatening and killing young people, at least in India itself. This is pure incompetence, neglect and outrageous political malpractice on part of the Biden administration not to be shutting the borders already, with all the flights coming in from India, the US is likely the most vulnerable country in the world to these new mutants. It's like political correctness and fear of being called "racist" in the USA are so powerful, that Biden and the liberals are willing even to quite directly endanger hundreds of millions of Americans to avoid even the hint of "racism". (Or again, maybe it's because the Big Tech companies in the USA like Amazon, Facebook and Apple and are desperate from that cheap labor, and the billionaires are pushing Biden to keep the borders open for H1B visa holders). Either way it's terrible mismanagement and criminal negligence on part of Biden administration at this point to be continuing to allow flights in from India like this.
Last edited by Corascant; 04-23-2021 at 02:25 PM..
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