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Old 04-19-2008, 05:35 PM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,524,953 times
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Appears to be some pretty broad-ranging defintions of collectivism going on here...
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Old 04-20-2008, 05:35 AM
 
20,379 posts, read 20,003,365 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
Wow! Goldbrickers...such a difficult, unique, and modern problem.

It is? I didn't know that. Or, is Juno on the warpath again.
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Old 04-20-2008, 07:02 AM
 
7,381 posts, read 7,707,484 times
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Collectivism is the proverbial snowball rolling downhill. When the achievers notice the non-achievers receiving the benefits of their labor, some achievers will eventually become non-achievers until all that is left is a majority of non-achievers and an unsustainable economy.
The U.S. has begun on that track and the hill is getting steeper and steeper. And people wonder why the number of those in poverty continue to increase.
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Old 04-20-2008, 10:18 AM
 
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I meet a pretty sizable number of achievers every day. I've yet to meet even one who has told me that he or she became an achiever because the people around him or her were working so hard at achieving, but that if those folks had ever let down for a minute, they themselves would have gladly sat on their fat duffs and done nothing as well. That's just not part of my experience on the planet, but apparently there are some others who have run into it quite a lot...
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Old 04-20-2008, 10:48 AM
 
3,210 posts, read 4,625,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
I meet a pretty sizable number of achievers every day. I've yet to meet even one who has told me that he or she became an achiever because the people around him or her were working so hard at achieving, but that if those folks had ever let down for a minute, they themselves would have gladly sat on their fat duffs and done nothing as well. That's just not part of my experience on the planet, but apparently there are some others who have run into it quite a lot...
I work at a package delivery company (yes, one of the two big ones FedEx or UPS, you can guess which one) and I load tractor-trailers. Now, we're all supposed to load 300 packages an hour. But the average is 260-280 in my building and lower in our area. Why? Becuase the Union guarentees our jobs. Now, I do like having a Union, but when I see people loading jack **** and I'm hauling ass, it does get me peeved. I'm an achiever becuase that's how I was raised plus the fact that I want to move up in the company. But since people think they can't get fired, they then try to do as little as possible. So guess what, the "Achievers" get asked to do more. Eventually, all but a few say "**** it" and slow way down, and now our whole area is a living nightmare.


But at least the bosses are nice. :/
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Old 04-20-2008, 10:51 AM
 
3,728 posts, read 4,879,508 times
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Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
One of the necessary preconditions for capitalism is free trade. Try reading Adam Smith.
Okay, now I'm starting to like you.
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Old 04-20-2008, 10:51 AM
 
3,255 posts, read 5,089,320 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzles View Post
I work at a package delivery company (yes, one of the two big ones FedEx or UPS, you can guess which one) and I load tractor-trailers. Now, we're all supposed to load 300 packages an hour. But the average is 260-280 in my building and lower in our area. Why? Becuase the Union guarentees our jobs. Now, I do like having a Union, but when I see people loading jack **** and I'm hauling ass, it does get me peeved. I'm an achiever becuase that's how I was raised plus the fact that I want to move up in the company. But since people think they can't get fired, they then try to do as little as possible. So guess what, the "Achievers" get asked to do more. Eventually, all but a few say "**** it" and slow way down, and now our whole area is a living nightmare.


But at least the bosses are nice. :/
When I was a union steward, we never ever guaranteed you a job, our fight was to keep the job available. If you were not working with your fellow union members, as stewards we did the heavy lifting to get the person removed, and a better worker put in place. Maybe you need to run for steward and get your organization cracking.
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Old 04-20-2008, 01:32 PM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,524,953 times
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Originally Posted by janeannwho View Post
When I was a union steward, we never ever guaranteed you a job, our fight was to keep the job available. If you were not working with your fellow union members, as stewards we did the heavy lifting to get the person removed, and a better worker put in place. Maybe you need to run for steward and get your organization cracking.
Thank you for that dose of reality. Something that is often sorely needed hereabouts....
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Old 04-20-2008, 01:34 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,286 posts, read 87,588,293 times
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its about people that don't their part. its killed industry here. that is why people hate unions.
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Old 04-20-2008, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,922 posts, read 8,082,064 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
its about people that don't their part. its killed industry here. that is why people hate unions.
No industry ever died because of bad unions. Management makes the critical decisions. Good management doesn't end up with intractable union problems. Bad management frequently has difficult union problems.
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