2 weeks before his inauguration, Trump was shown highly classified info that Putin had personally ordered cyberattacks (Clinton, Obama)

[boneyard1962]

Originally Posted by pknopp

What difference does it make? What president acknowledges spying between the countries?

They all do it. We do it. Everyone knows it. What exactly are we supposed to do?

Thank you for stating what is so damned obvious it shouldn't even be a debate.
What that poster has is selective ignorance combined with selective outrage.

[NeutralParty]

Originally Posted by Chicano3000X

This is kinda big.. C'mon guys. Those Redhats gotta be sweating at the brim..

That was one hell of a story from the Times.

City-Data Trump supporters will continue to be their rude, obnoxious selves, but deep down inside they know this is the beginning of the end for Orange Donny.

[GotHereQuickAsICould]

Originally Posted by enraeh

What’s in those Clinton emails and on that DNC server that you are so desperate to hide by shouting
“Russia Russia Russia”? This is chicken little deflection. Come on pajama boyz and riot gurlz, those ***** hats gotta be too tight on your drug addled little heads.

Insults, lies, and distractions? That's all you got?

Come on. You can do better than that.

[ringwise]

Originally Posted by Dbones

AND the last admin did absolutely nothing about it and let it go on. So who are the real traitors here?

“This is my last election … After my election I have more flexibility.” Obama said.

[ringwise]

Originally Posted by gladhands

No. We’re not doing this. Why did Trump cover for the Russians? He literally covered for a direct attack on American democracy. There is no equivalence anywhere.

OK, we'll do this then. Why did Obama cover for the Russians? He knew the same information. He literally covered for a direct attack on American democracy. There is exact equivalence there.

[camaro69]

Good, bad or indifference. this happened while Obama was President.

[TEPLimey]

Originally Posted by ringwise

OK, we'll do this then. Why did Obama cover for the Russians? He knew the same information. He literally covered for a direct attack on American democracy. There is exact equivalence there.

Obama imposed significant sanctions (which were secretly undercut by Mike Flynn), expressly warned the Russians that engaging in further interference would result in additional penalties and sought to show a unified front against the Russians by issuing a bi-partisan denouncement of their activities (rejected by Mitch McConnell). You have a funny definition of “literally covered”.

I wish Obama did more but, like many of his foreign policy decisions, in hindsight he failed to show enough strength. Given the circumstances and the optics of announcing or sanctioning Russia for interfering with the election in a way beneficial to the GOP at the height of election season, i think his decision is more defensible than others he made.

How Obama’s failings excuse Trump’s current failings is anyone’s guess. One has nothing to do with the other. If people want to lay some fault at Obama’s feet for not counteracting the threat, I’m receptive to hear that argument irrespective of the mitigating circumstances, but that has nothing to do with what our current President has (and has not) done to address the known threat as urged by his own advisors.

[enraeh]

Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould

Insults, lies, and distractions? That's all you got?

Come on. You can do better than that.

It’s actually a serious question. Perhaps you could answer. What is the left trying to hide? Now you can come back with the usual spin and deflection and blame me for “trying to hi jack the thread” but this question remains like an inconvenient truth: what are the DNC and democrats trying to hide?

[leebeemi]

Originally Posted by boneyard1962

It isn't about liking Hillary or not. She was a lousy candidate. She lost because she couldn't beat the other lousy candidate. Her integrity was deeply questionable. She ignored her base and ran a bad campaign. She should have easily beaten Trump. Russian propaganda didn't beat Hillary. Hillary beat Hillary.


This isn't about Hillary Clinton. Stop deflecting. You make it sound like nobody voted for her. We did. She didn't win. Stop bringing her into every single criticism of Trump. She is irrelevant to this.


So what is the left's real beef? Who knows every week it is something else. What I do know is that when you do bad things to others you really dont get to cry about it they are done to you.
Obama screwed with more than a few countries. People literally died as a result. The left was silent. Obama involved us in a civil war that was none of our business. This destabilized the situation even worse causing a mass migration and countless more deaths. The left were cheer leaders for that. Syria is still a hot mess.. The whole Libya thing. Another mess, and it was none of our business.


The left's real beef in this instance is the president lying. And colluding. And maybe money laundering...The US does screw with a lot of countries. I was unhappy with what happened with Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc, etc, etc, going back decades. I have always voiced my criticism. It's what we do. But I'm concerned NOW about what's happening NOW. A lot of things that we are involved in are not our business, but there are many more I wish we would make our business (but I realize we can/should not). That has nothing to do with what is happening NOW.


I care that we screw with others with impunity because we carry a big stick. I care that the Russian threat was treated like a joke by the left, a point of ridicule as a matter of fact. Now suddenly the Russians are coming the Russians are coming.


Don't paint "the left" with such broad strokes. You don't determine what individuals think, what we feel. And the Russians appear to have already come, and if there was collusion, well, you know...



What do we do? Start lobbing missiles at them or better protect ourselves?
I dont trust the left to be any better in regard with Russia than I do Trump. It was Obama and company who sold 20% of our Uranium control to the Russians. It was Obama and the left who has made us 100% reliant upon Russia to ferry our people into space.

I don't know a single person who favors "lobbing missiles." And I don't trust many to handle Russia appropriately, which is why we have to push to find out the whole of what's happening. If the resulting investigation were to prove that Obama's hands were dirty, I would not want that covered up. If there is so much going on, shouldn't we want to make sure we discover it, in order to better protect ourselves. My narrative isn't: Obama GOOD, Clinton GOOD, Trump BAD. I don't personally know anyone who thinks that way. I sincerely want to know what is going on. If Trump is clean, I'll be surprised, but it could happen--I'm not sure he has what it takes to manipulate Putin. I DO worry that he is easily manipulated, and that is my chief concern.

[RedZin]

Originally Posted by boneyard1962

How many cyber attacks have US Presidents ordered?
You see Im finding it hard to accept that we have any moral high ground on this issue. Yes I can see why we as a nation should be concerned that we are vulnerable. What we don't have a right to be is butt hurt by it, considering how many countries we have screwed with.

Of course we do.

If you actually have a "USA First" attitude, you aren't so critical of your own country's use of their intelligence assets or attempts to influence global affairs in a way that is beneficial to your own country that you support another country tampering in US elections.

Why are we slapping our own hands and saying it's fine for Russia to tamper with our elections?

Do you want Russia to tamper with US elections?

You can be against the US tampering in other countries' elections without being flippant about other countries tampering in ours, of course.

But, it sounds like you are saying "I do not care if a foreign power tampered in electoral process and influenced the outcome because I do not care who the people of the US actually wanted to run the country."