For those males in the U.S. who do NOT support "equal pay for women for equal work", why exactly are you opposed to it? (illegal, solution)

[gallowsCalibrator]

Originally Posted by whogo

Not a single female is looking to mow yards. They will pet and baby sit. Now, who deserves more per hour, the pet sitter or the lawn mower?

Depends on the requirement for the pet or child. Or the size of the lawn.

One requires pushing a piece of equipment up and down a lawn a few times. At least around here, all the teenage babysitters listed in our newsletter are almost all CPR-certified, many have food handler licenses.

Originally Posted by michiganmoon

Men choose higher paying career fields.

On this, it's actually fairly interesting (at least to me) that fields typically dominated by women are seen as "lesser" and deserving of a lower pay than fields dominated by males. While some fields, like being an oil rig technician, directly correlate to a higher pay, many other positions that have a legitimate need and value... are just not seen as such.

For instance, see above. The poster feels that somebody who knows how to push a lawnmower (which has quite a number of safety measures) up and down a lawn a few times is more monetarily valuable than someone who is capable of caring and being responsible for a living creature. Pet or human.

All in all, women tend to take jobs that are more domestic-centric. Positions like teachers, daycare workers, nursing homes aides, social workers, counselors, tax preparers, vet techs, etc. And not only are all of these job fields dominated by women, but generally pay less than somebody who does generic lawn care.

A vet tech whose job duties include handling and caring for sick and injured animals up to and including having to put them down? $31,800/year

Daycare workers. People whose sole job is to ensure the safety and well-being of small children, help with homework and other educational needs, handle medical emergencies? Ya know, like a kid going into anaphylactic shock because some other child's parents thought the "no peanut butter" rule was dumb? $20,320

Originally Posted by michiganmoon

-Men working fulltime work about 10% more hours than fulltime women on average

Eh. According to the BLS, for full-time workers, it's more like 4.9% more hours.

Originally Posted by michiganmoon

-Men take less sick days

-Men take less personal days

To be fair, if I didn't have a uterus that exploded like a scene out of a Michael Bay movie, I'd be taking less personal days as well. Not saying that's it's the reason for all women, just noting why I'm glad to be fortunate enough to have a job where I can work from anywhere. Means once a month, I can prop myself in bed with a heating pad, lots of chocolate, and my laptop and still be (relatively) productive.

Women are more likely to visit a doctor than a male. Whether it be for the yearly (or bi-yearly) trip to speculum-assisted swabbing, birth control management, but also for physicals, illness, etc. It's a pretty fair stereotype that women are more likely to see their doctor when something is wrong, vice males who tend to let heart palpitations fester until having a full-blown heart attack and needing a quadruple bypass (my father in law).

Originally Posted by michiganmoon

-Men are less likely to work part time at any point in their career.

Honestly, I think this goes back to the idea of women being typically caregivers to children. Working part time means being able to work while kids are in school so as to not need a sitter.

Originally Posted by michiganmoon

-Men are ~4.5 times more likely to ask for a raise

There's a lot of really great studies about how women frequently have this problem. From negotiating a salary to asking for raises to even raising one's hand to answer questions in a classroom setting. Also some great studies about how women (at least in past generations) have been socialized to be more humble and less straight-forward or brash.

Originally Posted by michiganmoon

-Men are less likely to take half a year or a whole year off (maternity is a common cause of this)

Common issue. But I personally think both parents should feel comfortable taking (paid) time off to bond with a newborn. Not just the one who ejected the kid from their nether-regions.

Originally Posted by michiganmoon

Perhaps it is society and not biology that push women to take more time off of work and etc...where women are expected to be more of a parent than men. That would be a cultural problem more than employer discrimination.

It's a bit of both, to be honest. I know that growing up, my dad tried to raise me to be a "proper" girl. I couldn't even have black socks or shoes in elementary or middle because it was not "appropriate". Hair perfectly kept. Aim to get married, have a kid of three, and be a proper mom to my children in the home. And well... yeah. No. That ain't me.

I'm the gal who writes software and married to a auto/diesel tech. We both have fairly solid, decent-paying careers... although mine pays a pretty penny more. I earn 10 weeks vacation per year at work with a "use it or lose it" policy. And guess what? I'm gonna use it.

It is a cultural problem that manifests as a stark difference in employment. Because women are socially guided towards being the primary parent, they will be more likely than a male counterpart to take time away from work to be a parent. In single parent situations, it's typically the women with custody, meaning the father is "free" to work those extra hours and not take that time off.

If you read the American Time Use Survey, the averages show that men not only work more hours at their jobs, but also spend more hours on leisurely hobbies. Whereas women spend less time at work, but make up for it in domestic responsibilities.

Overall, I think the gender wage gap as a whole is a conglomeration of biological and social factors that aren't always an employer just "deciding" that women should just work at a lower salary. But in the cases where it is found? We have laws to handle it... but I think the penalties should be more severe for larger corporations who'd laugh off the current fines.

[Roadking2003]

Originally Posted by UsAll

This question is posted here by a male American citizen .

What am I opposed to? Your facts are fake. There is such a small gap it's not worth discussing.

But check this out.

Elizabeth Warren's Female Staffers Made 71% Less Than Male Staffers in 2016

[Roadking2003]

Originally Posted by Kevdawgg

It's been pushed by liberals and feminists even though it's been debunked.

The pay gap exists because women take lesser paying jobs, work less hours, turn down promotions, and take more time off work.

In fact, the most paid majors are male dominated while the least paid majors are female dominated.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcDrE5YvqTs

Good post.

The facts are that when normalized for all factors affecting pay the gap is so small that it's not an issue.

[NxtGen]

1. Women being discriminated in pay is a fairy tale told out of ignorance or political deviance.

2. Hire is voluntary.

3. Private business.

4. Private business.

5. Private business.

If 3-5 doesn't matter to you, then you have no respect for rights anyway and so look stupid arguing that you have a right to be paid as you "think" you should.

[swilliamsny]

Originally Posted by whogo

If you think women are underpaid start a business and just hire women.

There was a company that did this. A handbag company, I think. It was a disaster, lol. I'll have to see if I can find a link.


For the OP; I'm female, middle-aged. I've been fortunate enough to have spent years in the workforce and also a generous amount of time as a stay-at-home with my kids. While in the workforce, I never once saw a woman getting paid less than a man if she was doing equal work. I'm sure there are some scattered cases, just as there are likely some isolated cases where a woman makes more. This is being made into a much bigger issue than it is in actuality.

[Milton Miteybad]

It's already illegal to pay less for the same work on the basis of sex, and has been since 1963, since the passage of the Equal Pay Act of 1963.

Thus concludes this thread.

[BentBow]

Originally Posted by UsAll

For those males in the U.S. who do NOT support "equal pay for women for equal work", why exactly are you opposed to it?

The laws here in American, make it illegal for those doing equal work to get paid different based upon gender, or race. Experience and productive output, yes. But not gender or race.
What else do we need?


Now, if you are subcontracting, none of that applies. you set your own price, value and worth.


If I could pay women less, I'd only have women working for me.

[skins_fan82]

Whether you're a liberal or a conservative, I have a hard time understanding how any mature adult could be against the idea of equal pay for men and women that do the same job.

[t206]

Originally Posted by skins_fan82

Whether you're a liberal or a conservative, I have a hard time understanding how any mature adult could be against the idea of equal pay for men and women that do the same job.

Thats the point, NOBODY IS. This is a false statement from OP. What people ARE opposed to, is people who try to use this fallacy as a political talking point to create division among voters.

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by UsAll

This question is posted here by a male American citizen (and one who is even a senior now). Over the decades, I've wondered at times about the controversy of "EQUIAL PAY FOR EQUAL WORK FOR WOMEN" in the USA (though it certainly can prevail elsewhere as well in the world-at-large outsde the USA). I've at times wondered, even as a male, the following question:

"For those in the U.S. population-at-large who do NOT suppport the concept of "equal pay for women for equal work" (believing instead that females should always or nearly always get paid less than males for the same job positions doing the same type and degree of work), what justifications would they give for supporting such a point-of-view?

That is, why is this issue still being fought over to this very day in the USA? I wouldn't normally think that one has to be a liberal or radiclib or leftist or a male or female feminist to support the concept of "equal pay for women for equal work". I would think that, even if I were a conservative or libertarian or moderate on a range of issues, supporting the idea of "equal pay for women for equal work" being codified into law should just be a matter of basic human decency. Is it reaqlly my place, as a male, to tell the entire female half of humanity that, across the board, they are less meritorious and less worthy than me of being paid equially for the same type, level, and degree of work simply because they have female genitalia instead of male genitalia? As competent and gifted as I am, I have worked with and among women in the same type of positions who were as competent as I and sometimes even more competent than I . . . and yet I should still always get paid MORE than they do because I am male rather than female? What kind of common sense and what kind of moral sense does such a position make?

So, to all male Americans (or even non-American males) who are reading this thread and who are opposed to the concept of "equal pay for women for equal work" being codified into law nationally, please explain and justify your position. I'm genuinely curious and intrigued as to what you would say about the matter. And please find it in youself to be intellectually honest here and hence to give a wholly truthful portrayal of what you really think and why you think this way.

And, for that matter, are there any WOMEN here who, even though being a women, you as well do NOT support the concept of "equal pay for women for equal work" being codified into law nationally. If so, please explain & justify your own position of being opposed to the presented concept of "equal pay for women for equal work" being codified into law nationally.

what makes you think there is a glass ceiling, or that women don't get equal OR BETTER pay??


what pay issue??? the gender gap or so called glass ceiling is a myth

the glass ceiling lie

another liberal lie

someone brings up the equal pay thing they lose

...the 'glass ceiling is a LIE

EVERY job that I have seen women in they make the SAME as their male counterparts based on SENIORITY and SKILL
the MYTH of the glass ceiling is just that..a MYTH

We often hear about a "wage gap" between women and men. In 1992, the ratio of female to male, year-round, fulltime earnings was 71 cents to the dollar. This includes workers of all ages and all types of jobs. Among workers 25 to 34, the 1992 ratio was 82 cents on the dollar. And in a real "apples to apples" comparison, the gap narrows more. June E. O'Neill, director of the Congressional Budget Office, did a study based on the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth by Ohio State University's Center for Human Resources Research. O'Neill found that among people 27 to 33 who have never had a child, women's earnings were about 98-99% of men's. Similar results occur if you compare the earnings of women and men of the same education and experience in the same professions.
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/199...nings-of-women Women also have created jobs, for themselves and others. In 1980, there were about 2 million women-owned businesses with about $25 billion in sales. in 1996, according to the National Foundation for Women Business Owners, nearly 8 million companies with more than $2.25 trillion in sales are owned by women. One in four American workers is employed by a woman-owned business.

In many occupations, including speech pathology and financial analysis, women earn far more than men. When it comes to college degrees, women outpace men by a fair shot. According to the Wall Street Journal, “single, childless women between ages 22 and 30 were earning more than their male counterparts in most U.S. cities, with incomes that were 8 percent on average."

if liberals were ACTUALLY concerned with fairness...then they would be pushing for a pay for performance law, rather than a BS glass ceiling that doesnt exist


why should the other person be paid the same as me..if I have more experience..and more skill


do you really think the worst mechanic in town, should get paid the same as the best mechanic in town???




pay is set by QUALIFICATIONS and needs...needs of the company AND needs of the employee who negotiates starting wage during the application process

do you really think pay should be only set by title???


should a _________(you choose man/woman/it) who has been DOING THE JOB for 1 year be paid the same as a __________ who has been DOING the JOB for 10 years( EXPERIENCE )?????



should a woman or man coming into the shop as a mechanic be paid the same as my lead mechanic, just because the title says mechanic????



should a woman LAWYER just coming out of law school be paid the same as a male lawyer that has been practicing for the last 20 years???



should a woman just coming onto the job, (but has 10 years experience) be paid the same as an employee that has been with the COMPANY for the last 10 years ( LONGEVITY on the job)????


should an employee based in a NYC company be paid the same as an employee based in a Biloxi Mississippi company, just because they have the same title, and are the same type of company??? even though the cost of living is like 4-1 difference??


pay is set by skill, experience, education, and need...and how you PRESENT YOURSELF on the interview





liberals always look to mediocrity, instead of striving for the best


now liberals will force LOWER PAY for all...the fascist liberal dream...all of us being serfs