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I'm smart enough to know when you're calling me stupid. Have some dignity and own it instead of hiding behind what you think is superior intellect.
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Originally Posted by Costaexpress
ANd your last paragraph is quite nonsense. All I said was reality. You said the realities aren't wrong, but should be. That's not the topic. You are not interested in reality, but want to add your "should" agendas to it. This was a talk about reality, not intention. And you still don't think that you proposed something. DIdn't you say that the last two realities should be wrong? Isn't that a position?
My original comments didn't have a proposition. The second wave did.
Discussing what 'is' is sort of pointless. There isn't much to discuss about the 'realities' if all you want to do is stop there. If you do want to stop there, then making a forum post about it is worthless. A discussion calls for challenging your realities as being unnecessary and suggesting they should be phased out for more efficient alternatives.
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Originally Posted by Costaexpress
You also seem to completely misunderstand some of my points. Who said education is pointless? To take my statements to that extreme is just wholesomely false. If anything, it is that education is highly important but you must know how to do it. What is pointless is acquiring inflated grades without learning anything and breaking your bank. You also got it wrong saying that intelligence isn't profitable. You have apparently missed the last 30 years, if not the entire history. Intelligence has always been driving industrialization and innovation. From the light bulb to the technology that we have today, intelligence drives the invention, the technology transfer, the business operations, and R&D. Intelligence is at the heart of Silicon Valley and Wall Street. And they are competitive enough to weed out those who aren't intelligent enough. Plenty of them in the arts and the humanities getting inflated grades. That is how far you have misunderstood my statements. To the complete opposite.
I suppose you're right in saying intelligence is still seen as important. Sure, intelligence brought us the light bulb. The first light bulbs, by the way, lasted much longer. The world's oldest light bulb (~110 years old) still works. But why do light bulbs that I buy at the store now only last a couple of months at best? That's not intelligence, it's a consumer based economy, though perhaps it's the intelligence of the consumer. It's called planned obsolescence, and odds are, an intelligent person thought it up; also, a ****ing evil person.
Regardless, you and I must have a fundamental disagreement on why universities exist. They should be about intellectual development. Not jobs. Any major can have value if an individual wants to do something at an intellectual level for the field of study. We probably agree that some majors are taught ineffectively, but that doesn't mean the major as a whole is worthless. New fields of study are constantly being made. The problem with universities however is that they seem so job oriented, which is unfortunately necessary because the price of college has inflated to such an unacceptable amount. We can agree that someone spending $200,000 for a bachelors degree in Women's Study probably wasted that 200 grand, but it's because no degree is worth that much, no matter how prestigious.
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Originally Posted by Costaexpress
Your statements about how you can do what you love is entirely irrelevant and perhaps silly at least. What you can do is not solely what you want to do, and for a "should-person," you don't necessarily understand that. You can go murder someone too, but there would be consequences after you are done. What you do is always in the context of what happens afterwards. There is no such a thing as just doing without thinking about consequences. Oh wait, that is what fiscal irresponsibility is about. Do what you love and make other people pay for it. Whether they do what they love, there is no mentioning except "you can do what you love too," an empty and pointless statement. You are not going to pick up people's broken pieces but your fellow citizens have to pick up yours.
This point really devolved into a lot of different things and I'm not really sure what you want me to talk about.
Welfare, I think?
Welfare exists as a means of getting people back on their feet in a time of need. Yes, there are people abusing it, which means it's flawed, and we should change that. But what you have to understand is that people who hate their job aren't going to be the best fit for that job. People who give a damn about what they do will always do a better job than those who don't care. Do you disagree with that?
I assume no, so it stands to reason that it is important to do something you love. The thing is, that statement sort of implies the wrong thing. Doing what you love doesn't mean everything's fun. What I enjoy doing and am working on getting a degree for is hard work. It's stressful and I've had been extremely busy lately. But I care about it.
Now, if you think it's a problem when what people love is not working hard, I'd agree that this is a problem. But that's not a job. I'm under the assumption that the thing they love is something that can at least make a profession. Like writing or something. Presumably, if someone wanted to be a writer, which doesn't have the best job security, they'd work hard at it to better their chances.
And I'm not belittling business or engineering majors who go for practical job out look purposes. That's fine. If their goal in life is financial success in an area with high job security, I encourage them to pursue that. I encourage everyone to pursue what their passionate about and if they are truly passionate, they will do a good job. If they aren't, well, that's how we get the aspiring writer on welfare who deep down knows he doesn't want to be a writer but he already has the degree. Potentially, this is a problem solved by making college less about 'get a job!' and making it about intellectual development, which will cause their skills in that field to grow if they genuinely have that passion. Making college less necessary and less expensive is also a smart move.
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Originally Posted by Costaexpress
This is why reality isn't bad, despite how you do not lik them and want to change them. Your "not natural" comment was false, and you have no definition of what is natural. But one thing you said perhaps invalidates your "natural" point. You said college had a different meaning in the past. But that was a very different era, with different economic conditions. The good old days of college were also a short period. It wasn't always the case either. What has stood the test of time is that you have to adapt to the world, and that reality that you would gain so much more focusing on adapting rather than utopian dreams. That reality has a much longer history. It is much closer to what is natural to humans.
I agree with your point on adaption. However, it was the resistance to adaption that has created the world we currently live in. Go back to my planned obsolescence point. Instead of restructuring our economy as abundance made the old ways invalid, we started making inferior products in order to keep the original system going. It cannot sustain itself though. We're wasting too many resources, and people are getting sick of it. Resistance to change creates problems, like colleges being over expensive but being require to find a job, which is used to pay off your college. That's circular logic, and it's never a good thing.
And the irony here is, I'm the one talking about adaption but you're telling me to not adapt to the current society, which I'm already adapted to. I know how to survive in this system, I just think it's a BS system that relies on people's ignorance and fear to sustain itself.
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Originally Posted by Costaexpress
Your point about atheism sounds quite sour grape. As an atheist, I certainly do not have your level of despise for religion. I simply do not care about religion much, but I have a much more "live and let live" attitude. Atheism didn't have a glorious history, contrary to the fantasies of pushy atheist activists. At the height of communism, the weekly meetings and the worshipping of the only political party resembled incredibly the practice of Christianality. If anything, the athesists there adopted the most typical religious practice and went far worse than your average chocaloate-eating smilely Lutheran in the midwest. The most painful tragedy is that such a supposedly glorious experiment of atheism across the iron curtain world brought out the worst crimes of humans, championed with the distinctive torch of the political left. But the most hilarious award, nonetheless, goes to these same countries after the left ran out of everybody's money. Guess what, the bad-old-religions have returned, with all too typical practices that echoes the past before the past. Many ordinary graduates from left-wing brainwashing re-education camps went straight back to church.
What defined the Soviet Union and similar states was not atheism. It was communism. And in your analogy, it was hardly the followers of the religion causing the problems but the entity they worshiped. I'm not gonna go off on this though since talking about religion is the fastest way to completely derail a thread.
I like your list OP. Since it is in the Political forum when I read it all I could think of is the Myths come from the Democrats and the reality is the Republicans.
Life is not easy despite what the Dems have been telling us for years now. They give out free money to everyone but when it comes time to pay the tab the Reps need to give a reality check. This could be why the Republicans are not popular.
They are required to make the hard decisions.
HA! I just thought of something the Republicans are like parents and the Democrats are the kids.
American kids have it very easy compared to most other kids in the world yet all they want is more and more that is until they get out into the real world. Myth V. Reality.
Regardless of who you believe is telling these perceived myths, it has been Republicans who have been in charge of this nation since millennials have come of age.
How long has it been since you were in college? Many of the young students in my classes are barely literate enough to spell their own names. I am in a history class where over 60% failed the first test. One young lady got a score of 2 out of a possible 94.
I think that might have more to do with the quality of your college rather than the notion that liberal arts degrees have no value. Try enrolling at a different university and get into their honors program if they have one. I went to a large state university for my undergrad degree and being able to enroll in honors classes helped me enormously.
That being said, there were kids at my school who didn't study and did poorly too. I wasn't one of them, mainly because I had just left the military and was already in my mid 20's at the time. I knew that I needed to take my education seriously and so I did.
Myth 3: Get a college degree, get a middle class job, make six figures.
Reality: A college degree's worth is determined by its scarcity. The college degree worths much less when more people have it, even less when your degree doesn't have much marketable skills. The expansion of college education enriched wealthy university administrators, produced an army of hopeless phds and adjunct labor they have become, and fed the loans industry.
No it's based on human capital. An education is believed to make citizens into productive capital.
90% of what people learn in college is worthless. They are paying huge amounts of money for studies that will in no way help them in any later endeavor in life.
I am 67 and just going to college because I can. I am in my 4th semester and have a 4.0 GPA. Nothing that I have learned in college would have helped me in my earlier years working.
We're exactly the same age and from what I've seen coming out of college very little would help in the real world but the indoctrination is if you go into deep debt then the six figure job will come.
It doesn't work like that in the real world.
Take an attorney for example.
An old friend of mine, he's 90 now, had to quit school in the 7th grade to get a job to support the family after his dad died in a West Virginia coal mining accident.
Started a small construction excavating business and built it up to where if you ever drove on an Interstate Highway in Kentucky, Ohio or West Virginia chances are nearly 100% that you drove on a section of highway his company constructed.
Most down to earth guy you would ever meet, with overall jeans, used baseball cap and all, and I know he accumulated a net worth of 9 figures. Yeah, nine.
What impressed me the most, besides his down home living and life style, was his knowledge of construction law was legendary and no law degree.
Everyone thought he was nuts when he purchased several thousand acres around Orlando before Disney World was built.
Thing was is his success wasn't an accident and I believe it can be repeated in America today. He didn't win the lottery but he did work hard, long and he wasn't stupid.
I like your list OP. Since it is in the Political forum when I read it all I could think of is the Myths come from the Democrats and the reality is the Republicans.
Life is not easy despite what the Dems have been telling us for years now. They give out free money to everyone but when it comes time to pay the tab the Reps need to give a reality check. This could be why the Republicans are not popular.
They are required to make the hard decisions.
HA! I just thought of something the Republicans are like parents and the Democrats are the kids.
American kids have it very easy compared to most other kids in the world yet all they want is more and more that is until they get out into the real world. Myth V. Reality.
Therein lies the truth in the old adage, "if by the age of 25, you aren't a liberal, you have no heart. If by the age of 40, you aren't a conservative, you have no brain".
90% of what people learn in college is worthless. They are paying huge amounts of money for studies that will in no way help them in any later endeavor in life.
I am 67 and just going to college because I can. I am in my 4th semester and have a 4.0 GPA. Nothing that I have learned in college would have helped me in my earlier years working.
One goes to college to be educated and to be able to have interesting conversations with others. A well rounded education is always useful to jump into a work related area. Self taught folks can also do well, but many require a more formal education. The other aspect is obtaining a profession and that has to do with specific jobs that require a license.
Colleges are selling a lot of liberal art degrees and do not land jobs. Colleges do the propaganda to collect the money from student loans. College is a business and marketing is everything.
I like your list OP. Since it is in the Political forum when I read it all I could think of is the Myths come from the Democrats and the reality is the Republicans.
One can easily claim the inverse is true as well as Republicans placate money interests, not people despite what they claim while Democrats (somewhat) do. I an a Rockefeller but I am sickened by the let the markets decide business is Allah turn the Republican party has made of late.
My starting place is, where did you get these myths. What swource do you have that people believe these things?
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Originally Posted by Costaexpress
Myth 1: Everyone gets a reward. There is no first place and last place.
No one says this, unless your a 6 year old on a soccer team. Grades, and scores, are a part of every childhood development.
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Originally Posted by Costaexpress
Myth 2: You can do what you love.
yeah people have ALWAYS said this. Its not new information. "Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life." - is f'n old Chinese proverb.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Costaexpress
Myth 3: Get a college degree, get a middle class job, make six figures.
Everyone knows that a college degree helps - and prepares you for the future. Now I have no problem with being realistic. I seriously hate people who say "find a major you like" akin to the above proverb. Its a bit BS.
I would disagree that college degree (and more) is "watering down the pool/lowering salaries". The reality is that more people have college degrees, more positions require them. It will be a gateway to entry into ANY better than mcdonalds fry cook salary.
College degree (and vocational training) is required to learn skills that allow you to compete globally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Costaexpress
Myth 4: Educate more people, and jobs will come (build it and they will come)
Reality: Jobs are created when demand for products and services increases. The number of jobs is unrelated to the number of college degrees.
Really short-sited
educated and capable workforce (via college, high school, and other) creates more jobs. More innovation . . it just grows. It does grow the pie.
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Originally Posted by Costaexpress
Myth 5: The more you know...
Reality: It is true that the more you know, the more you, duh, know. But it's just that. It doesn't necessarily make you more employeable, doesn't give you better salaries.
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