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It's very old, and very discouraging. I've never remembered a time in my life where politics fired me up like it has now, and I've never remembered a time where division amongst ourselves has been so strong and harsh. But the only way for us to try to change it is to do what we can to shed light on how things really are. That's done through honest and open discussion and debate. Ignoring it and whistling past the graveyard will hurt much more than it will help in the long run.
And Bush was, in his own words "a Uniter"! Remember that? "I'm a uniter not a divider." (He's also the 'Decider', lord have mercy!) He whistles pretty well, too.
Oh, another thing, it was the Taliban we supported in Afghanistan, not Al Queda.
I wonder when this country is going to realize that 'regime change' just does not work. It would have been different in Iraq if the Iraqi people were fighting for their rights and fighting against Saddam, but they weren't. We kind of just went in there and basically TOLD them what kind of government they are going to have.
Nea1, in one of your posts you said if a Democrat had been president we would have "run and hid" after 9/11. I have every reason to think the opposite. At least Kerry (whom I didn't really like but IMO better, WORLDS better, than Bush) actually saw combat in Vietnam while Bush was flying around the country going to political rallies, and boozing it up. I strongly believe Kerry would have gone after the REAL enemy, Al Queda, in Afghanistan, and not taken this bloody detour in Iraq. What a debacle it is turning out to be. It is shameful.
And Bush was, in his own words "a Uniter"! Remember that? "I'm a uniter not a divider." (He's also the 'Decider', lord have mercy!) He whistles pretty well, too.
Oh, another thing, it was the Taliban we supported in Afghanistan, not Al Queda.
I stand corrected.
Now watch this drive
It's funny how he's the Decider, but now that the war in Iraq is a total mess, it's the generals' fault. Boehner said this, but Bush didn't step in and correct him, either. But let's focus on a verbal gaffe by John Kerry, who isn't even running for anything this year.
This all-around intellectual dishonesty from our administration and our media HAS to stop...
It's funny how he's the Decider, but now that the war in Iraq is a total mess, it's the generals' fault. Boehner said this, but Bush didn't step in and correct him, either. But let's focus on a verbal gaffe by John Kerry, who isn't even running for anything this year.
This all-around intellectual dishonesty from our administration and our media HAS to stop...
They grasp at ANYTHING, don't they? They take an articulate man who misspeaks once, and yet after years of this buffoon running the country, I have to tell myself, it's nu cle ar, not nu ku lar. What morons. The dumbing down is quite pervasive.
But back to my central OP, I allege that the reason we have not had further attacks, in spite of WIDE OPEN BORDERS, is because we haven't needed them, yet. Does anyone really believe some dirty bomb could NOT have been smuggled across our wide open borders? Why hasn't this happened? We know they hate us, and it's not for some hokey reasons like they hate our freedoms. VERY naive and a great fairytale. No, it's because we meddle in their affairs and occupy their lands. Duh.
And 2000 years of history including the crusades where catholics invaded the middle east to take back the holy land...
50 years of unrest in the middle east between Israel and Palestine where death, poverty and hate are radicalizing generations of young men and women...
And a president who said "bring them on" while using 20 year old boys from Kentucky to go fight his ideaological wars. What was that 4 star general who said "decisions were made (regarding Iraq) with the arrogance of men who have never fought in a war nor buried the results???" (He was on the fire Rumsfeld campaign last year but I cannot remember his name...)
I'm going to go hide back under my rock now....LOL!
But back to my central OP, I allege that the reason we have not had further attacks, in spite of WIDE OPEN BORDERS, is because we haven't needed them, yet. Does anyone really believe some dirty bomb could NOT have been smuggled across our wide open borders? Why hasn't this happened? We know they hate us, and it's not for some hokey reasons like they hate our freedoms. VERY naive and a great fairytale. No, it's because we meddle in their affairs and occupy their lands. Duh.
Well I think we've gotten really lucky. Lets not forget they've tried - the shoe bomber, the London bombers just this year...and yes it's just a bit more difficult to attack with Osama hiding in a cave and all of our resources focused on terrorism (military, legal, surveliance, multi-national cooperation, etc, it's just not some guy at a xray machine at the airport).
They hate us, sure. The reasons are complex, much more complex than "we support Israel" or "well the crusades 1,000 years ago" (give me a break) or "well George Bush did this or that". Whatever the reason it doesn't justify killing 3,000 people in the world trade center. And the solution is much more complex than "well lets leave Iraq and they will leave us alone". Now THAT is being naive. I don't know the solution, but leaving Iraq is not it. If there is a solution it will take a few generations to fulfill. These are bad guys, lets not forget. They want to kill you, they want to kill your children, they want to put bombs on school buses, they want to destroy everything you know. A moderate Iraq could be a big part of the solution, maybe it will never get there, but it's worth a try.
"They want to kill you, they want to kill your children, they want to put bombs on school buses, they want to destroy everything you know"
Funny, that's exactly what the Iraquis say about our occupation and they aren't far from the truth if you add up the civilian casualties they have suffered at the hands of our military.
I have heard theories that 911 is a government conspiracy. I certainly don't know but I'm not blind or ignorant enough to ignore the possibility or put it past our corrupt politicians either. I am also a truth seeker and I believe questioning government authority is absolutely patriotic. I do find it interesting how certain political leaders have managed to divide our nation into two kinds...those who follow the conservative regime blindly in honor of our great country and those opposing unpatriotic liberals who should be grateful for what they have or ship themselves off to a third world country somewhere. This is what our current government wants is for us to squabble with each other and use this "you're with us or against us" mentality so that we won't pay attention to our personal freedoms as they are being stripped away because we are too busy pitting ourselves against one another.
And if I hear one more time that these countries hate us because of our freedom...that is the biggest load of you know what that makes no sense whatsoever. Sure, people in other countries far, far away spend all of their time thinking about other countries who have more freedom, wealth, etc. and how to destroy them. They wouldn't be thinking of us at all if we weren't over there sticking business where it doesn't belong. People in third world countries are so used to their way of life they don't spend all of their time thinking about what they don't have that Americans do anymore than we think about what other countries do and don't have. It is just silly to suggest that jealousy over our freedom alone is a motive for these terrorist groups. There is a lot more than jealousy over someone's freedom that drives them to bloody murder.
"They want to kill you, they want to kill your children, they want to put bombs on school buses, they want to destroy everything you know"
Funny, that's exactly what the Iraquis say about our occupation and they aren't far from the truth if you add up the civilian casualties they have suffered at the hands of our military.
I have heard theories that 911 is a government conspiracy. I certainly don't know but I'm not blind or ignorant enough to ignore the possibility or put it past our corrupt politicians either. I am also a truth seeker and I believe questioning government authority is absolutely patriotic. I do find it interesting how certain political leaders have managed to divide our nation into two kinds...those who follow the conservative regime blindly in honor of our great country and those opposing unpatriotic liberals who should be grateful for what they have or ship themselves off to a third world country somewhere. This is what our current government wants is for us to squabble with each other and use this "you're with us or against us" mentality so that we won't pay attention to our personal freedoms as they are being stripped away because we are too busy pitting ourselves against one another.
And if I hear one more time that these countries hate us because of our freedom...that is the biggest load of you know what that makes no sense whatsoever. Sure, people in other countries far, far away spend all of their time thinking about other countries who have more freedom, wealth, etc. and how to destroy them. They wouldn't be thinking of us at all if we weren't over there sticking business where it doesn't belong. People in third world countries are so used to their way of life they don't spend all of their time thinking about what they don't have that Americans do anymore than we think about what other countries do and don't have. It is just silly to suggest that jealousy over our freedom alone is a motive for these terrorist groups. There is a lot more than jealousy over someone's freedom that drives them to bloody murder.
"Divide and conquer" wasn't just a strategy used by Napoleon. Our own government has been doing a fine job of that for six years now.
What gets lost amidst all this partisan bickery and hackery (and I know I've indulged in the bickery, too) is that we ARE all supposed to be Americans, right? I think what gets me so fired up listening to much of the "discourse" in this country, such as what is on conservative radio, is listening to myself being demonized because I don't agree with the neocon agenda. No, I don't agree with it. But I was taught that in America, I don't HAVE to agree with my government, and I don't HAVE to blindly go along with what the "in crowd" thinks. But I was also taught that no one has to agree with me, either. In a civil society, we agree to disagree, then move on. We aren't a civil society any more, though, and I hate that.
And I hate that all the while, while I'm trying to convince conservatives that I really DO have America's best interests at heart, and conservatives are trying to convince me that I'm nothing but a moonbat, our government is screwing us blind, spending money we don't have, endangering our welfare, and stripping away our freedoms in the name of "keeping us safe".
And spot on about how the terrorists "hate us for our freedom". No, they don't. If they did, they'd hate Canada, Australia, Germany, France, Switzerland, New Zealand, and so on and so forth. They hate us because we're bullying, imperialist meddlers who kill people and ruin lives. If we were being killed and maimed, I'd hate whoever felt they had the right to do that to us, too.
"They hate us because we're bullying, imperialist meddlers who kill people and ruin lives"
Wow, I try to stick to the middle ground and see both points of view, but that one is on the fringe. Hey this country has problems but I hope for your sake you don't believe that. I'm not one to see "America love it or leave it" but in this case if your beliefs are that radical than you truly would be happier living somewhere else. That's just a seriously extreme point of view.
"If they did, they'd hate Canada, Australia, Germany, France, Switzerland, New Zealand, and so on and so forth."
All the countries you have listed, with the possible exception of New Zealand and Switzerland, have been victims of either terrorists attacks or terrorist attempts. Germany and Australia in particular (Bali anyone?).
It's funny how he's the Decider, but now that the war in Iraq is a total mess, it's the generals' fault. Boehner said this, but Bush didn't step in and correct him, either. But let's focus on a verbal gaffe by John Kerry, who isn't even running for anything this year.
This all-around intellectual dishonesty from our administration and our media HAS to stop...
Last I checked Rush Limbaugh wasn't running for office either. Why waste so much time with that nonsense?
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