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My stated beliefs and yours here in this post are examples of how serious the sectional divisions in this nation are. The conservative world view and liberal worldview are not reconcilable. The liberal view of what is progress is a conservatives degeneration.
The liberal sees traditional values as discrimination and ignorance. How on earth can we have a united nation like this??? Only in the past 20 years has the division gotten this bad, but it has been in the past 20 years that the liberal movement has become so aggressive and demanding of earthmoving societal change in this nation. This is exactly why I fear disunion is in the future of this nation. I think some folks in the liberal core states like NY or CA underestimate the level of contempt that exist in conservative states for the way things are going today. I fear for the future.
Why can't you accept everyone for who they are. No it's not a serious divide unless you make it one. A united nation means acceptance which you aren't willing to do.
What makes you think the majority should have the right to vote against any minority, that is tyranny, is it not? The voters did not have the right to vote against interracial marriage and when the bans were abolished, more than 70% of the US population was against interracial marriage. Who cares what your morality check is, being gay is not immoral. Do not see you and others fighting divorce and your precious bibles seem to declare that is immoral.
Oh, we are voters too and why should our rights even be up for a vote, are yours?
Yes you sued your way to the top with dine store lawyers and Gay Marriage may win in court, but think again if total acceptance of this life will be accepted as normal.
For the Record Marriage is something one has work at and Gay couples are going to get past the glam and find out it is work. As far as the bible is concern it is still a sin if people choose to go against God, that's between them and St. Peter. It will not go as planned, if you know what I mean.
Again States rights and the will of the people have been over turned.
Then the next step is some is going to sue churches for not marrying Gay Couples? What about the freedom of Religion?
The Gay community has already sued businesses who do not want to do business with a gay couples. Baker Couple and the Photographer in NM. Forcing people to deal with the movement is not going to win hearts and minds of anyone. What those people Religious rights? Then they go after the Quaker's and the Amish. Where is this going to lead?
It will get to the point where these business will say we are closed on that day or we are booked till next year. My point there is 101 business that are willing to do business with these events. But the Gay s choose to destroy peoples business openly and make people make a hard moral choice. That extortion!
The court look at it from a discrimination Issue, but it more of a a 1st Amendment issue.
So there is good reason there is push back from most Americans.
This was so much more easier to call it a civil union. Then Gays get their rights and many states have civil unions. Then we can politely acknowledge each other and be done with this.
Yes you sued your way to the top with dine store lawyers and Gay Marriage may win in court, but think again if total acceptance of this life will be accepted as normal.
For the Record Marriage is something one has work at and Gay couples are going to get past the glam and find out it is work. As far as the bible is concern it is still a sin if people choose to go against God, that's between them and St. Peter. It will not go as planned, if you know what I mean.
Again States rights and the will of the people have been over turned.
Then the next step is some is going to sue churches for not marrying Gay Couples? What about the freedom of Religion?
The Gay community has already sued businesses who do not want to do business with a gay couples. Baker Couple and the Photographer in NM. Forcing people to deal with the movement is not going to win hearts and minds of anyone. What those people Religious rights? Then they go after the Quaker's and the Amish. Where is this going to lead?
It will get to the point where these business will say we are closed on that day or we are booked till next year. My point there is 101 business that are willing to do business with these events. But the Gay s choose to destroy peoples business openly and make people make a hard moral choice. That extortion!
The court look at it from a discrimination Issue, but it more of a a 1st Amendment issue.
So there is good reason there is push back from most Americans.
This was so much more easier to call it a civil union. Then Gays get their rights and many states have civil unions. Then we can politely acknowledge each other and be done with this.
1. The states and the will of the people can't violate the Constitution and in this case its the 14th Amendment that is the reason for overturning many of the bans. In many cases the baAns that were put into place would be overturned if voted on, but peoples rights should never come down to votes of others.
2. Discrimination is discrimination period. A Business is not allowed to discriminate. If you want to dicriminate then don't go into business.
3. It isn't easier to call it a Civil Union. A Civil Union does not offer the same protections marriage offers. Not to mention many of the bans also ban Civil Unions.
4. No one is forcing chuches to marry same-sex couples if the church doesn't want to. Just like no one is forcing churches to marry couples of different faiths. It is about having equal rights under the law. A religious marriage has no legal meaning, a Civil Marriage does.
1. The states and the will of the people can't violate the Constitution and in this case its the 14th Amendment that is the reason for overturning many of the bans. In many cases the baAns that were put into place would be overturned if voted on, but peoples rights should never come down to votes of others.
2. Discrimination is discrimination period. A Business is not allowed to discriminate. If you want to dicriminate then don't go into business.
3. It isn't easier to call it a Civil Union. A Civil Union does not offer the same protections marriage offers. Not to mention many of the bans also ban Civil Unions.
4. No one is forcing chuches to marry same-sex couples if the church doesn't want to. Just like no one is forcing churches to marry couples of different faiths. It is about having equal rights under the law. A religious marriage has no legal meaning, a Civil Marriage does.
VERY excellent response. I don't know of ANY gay couples who want to be married in a church that disrespects them. Ghost riders's fears are truly unfounded and lack reason.
Yes you sued your way to the top with dine store lawyers and Gay Marriage may win in court, but think again if total acceptance of this life will be accepted as normal.
For the Record Marriage is something one has work at and Gay couples are going to get past the glam and find out it is work. As far as the bible is concern it is still a sin if people choose to go against God, that's between them and St. Peter. It will not go as planned, if you know what I mean.
Again States rights and the will of the people have been over turned.
Then the next step is some is going to sue churches for not marrying Gay Couples? What about the freedom of Religion?
The Gay community has already sued businesses who do not want to do business with a gay couples. Baker Couple and the Photographer in NM. Forcing people to deal with the movement is not going to win hearts and minds of anyone. What those people Religious rights? Then they go after the Quaker's and the Amish. Where is this going to lead?
It will get to the point where these business will say we are closed on that day or we are booked till next year. My point there is 101 business that are willing to do business with these events. But the Gay s choose to destroy peoples business openly and make people make a hard moral choice. That extortion!
The court look at it from a discrimination Issue, but it more of a a 1st Amendment issue.
So there is good reason there is push back from most Americans.
This was so much more easier to call it a civil union. Then Gays get their rights and many states have civil unions. Then we can politely acknowledge each other and be done with this.
So, straights can get a marriage at a whim, but gays have to work at? And your sin is not relative to me, nor is your fictitious bible or its god. Means NOTHING. You cannot prove the existance of your god and I do not have to obey its tenets, YOU DO. Sorry, but no one has the right to vote on anyones rights. Churches have and always will have the right to discern who can or cannot marry in their church and why would we want to marry before a god we know hates us, that is just stupid. And as to the businesses, they are a BUSINESS, open to the public, not a church, so they do not have the right to refuse service to anyone by using their bible to justify it. Your religious rights end at the end of your nose and when they start encroaching upon law that governs everyone, they they are tresspassing on the rights of us ALL. When one opens a business to the public, it is all of the public, you do not have the right to use your bible to condemn and discriminate against who you will serve. Why are so many Christians so filled with hate for their fellow man? Why are they so hateful and biased?
I think that everyone needs to be aware that no state constitution ever had an amendment in it that prevented same sex unions or protected straight unions in it. In 1998 when Hawaii started allowing domestic partnerships, many states went into panic mode and began legalized discrimination against homosexuals by passing into law their own versions of DOMA. What are you defending your straight marriage from? How does forbidding gays marriage protect your straight marriages or allowing it hurt your marriages? How does forbidding us marriage protect your children or any child?
My spouse and I are in our 36th year together, longer than most of my straight friends and family. Why should we be denied the same protections for the same price of a Federal civil marriage license that a straight couple can get, over and over in as many marriages as they like. No one has ever come up with a logical, reasonable, intelligent or rational excuse for discriminating against homosexuals that does not eventually come down to the bible or a god, or why it is okay to discriminate against us, but not other minorities.
So, straights can get a marriage at a whim, but gqys have to work at? And your sin is not relative to me, nor is your fictitious bible or its god. Means NOTHING. You cannot prove the existance of your god and I do not have to obey its tenets, YOU DO. Sorry, but no one has the right to vote on anyones rights. Churches have and always will have the right to discern who can or cannot marry in their church and why would we want to marry before a god we know hates us, that is just stupid. And as to the businesses, they are a BUSINESS, open to the public, not a church, so they do not have the right to refuse service to anyone by using their bible to justify it. Your religious rights end at the end of your nose and when they start encroaching upon law that governs everyone, they they are tresspassing on the rights of us ALL. When one opens a business to the public, it is all of the public, you do not have the right to use your bible to condemn and discriminate against who you will serve. Why are so many Christians so filled with hate for their fellow man? Why are they so hateful and biased?
I think that everyone needs to be aware that no state constitution ever had an amendment in it that prevented same sex unions or protected straight unions in it. In 1998 when Hawaii started allowing domestic partnerships, many stares went into panic mode and began legalized discrimination against homosexuals by passing into law their own versions of DOMA. What are you defending your straight marriage from? How does forbidding gays marriage protect your straight marriages or allowing it hurt your marriages? How does forbidding us marriage protect your children or any child?
My spouse and I are in our 36th year together, longer than most of my straight friends and family. Why should we be denied the same protections for the same price of a Federal civil marriage license that a straight couple can get, over and over in as many marriages as they like. No one has ever come up with a logical, reasonable, intelligent or rational excuse for discriminating against homosexuals that does not eventually come down to the bible or a god, or why it is okay to discriminate against us, but not other minorities.
Ppl fundamentally have to have someone to dislike. Since it's not acceptable to dislike racial minorities anymore, it comes down to disliking gays and lesbians. Sadly, even some of the racial minorities are among the biggest offenders.
VERY excellent response. I don't know of ANY gay couples who want to be married in a church that disrespects them. Ghost riders's fears are truly unfounded and lack reason.
When my spouse and I got married in 2008 here in California, it was in the clerks office at the courthouse, no mention of any god, not once. It cost us $100 on top of the $85 for the marriage license, multiply that by the 17,000 gay couples that got married while it was legal in that five month span and the state made a lot of money. Same sex marriage is a win for state coffers and businesses that fail to reap the rewards of our generous pockets when it comes to planning our weddings, fail to make a large amount of money. Just a barbecue celebration for our getting married was going to cost us $5,000 and that was for 100 people.
[quote=TheDragonslayer;36936058]When my spouse and I got married in 2008 here in California, it was in the clerks office at the courthouse, no mention of any god, not once. It cost us $100 on top of the $85 for the marriage license, multiply that by the 17,000 gay couples that got married while it was legal in that five month span and the state made a lot of money. Same sex marriage is a win for state coffers and businesses that fail to reap the rewards of our generous pockets when it comes to planning our weddings, fail to make a large amount of money. Just a barbecue celebration for our getting married was going to cost us $5,000 and that was for 100 people.[/QUOTE
Good for you that you got married in "the window". I wondered why so many did not jump at the chance when they had it and had to wait 5 years more to do it legally again.
Yes you sued your way to the top with dine store lawyers and Gay Marriage may win in court, but think again if total acceptance of this life will be accepted as normal.
For the Record Marriage is something one has work at and Gay couples are going to get past the glam and find out it is work. As far as the bible is concern it is still a sin if people choose to go against God, that's between them and St. Peter. It will not go as planned, if you know what I mean.
Again States rights and the will of the people have been over turned.
Then the next step is some is going to sue churches for not marrying Gay Couples? What about the freedom of Religion?
The Gay community has already sued businesses who do not want to do business with a gay couples. Baker Couple and the Photographer in NM. Forcing people to deal with the movement is not going to win hearts and minds of anyone. What those people Religious rights? Then they go after the Quaker's and the Amish. Where is this going to lead?
It will get to the point where these business will say we are closed on that day or we are booked till next year. My point there is 101 business that are willing to do business with these events. But the Gay s choose to destroy peoples business openly and make people make a hard moral choice. That extortion!
The court look at it from a discrimination Issue, but it more of a a 1st Amendment issue.
So there is good reason there is push back from most Americans.
This was so much more easier to call it a civil union. Then Gays get their rights and many states have civil unions. Then we can politely acknowledge each other and be done with this.
Some of the couples now able marry have been together for decades.
Do you really think that they haven't worked as hard as, if not harder than, heterosexual couples, to keep their relationships together?
No one is asking for total acceptance, just an end to institutionalized discrimination.
We need to have a vocabulary lesson on the word bigot
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what!
