Proposed 12 cent increase in gas tax (wage, solution, ideology, dollars)
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Really? gasoline prices are set for an all time high this summer?
uhmmm...aside from whatever is going on in Iraq, (as you indicate)....thats not true at all. Gas prices have gone down the last three years. Or do you mean not counting for inflation? I suppose we could do that, and then we could say:
"Almost every damn thing has gone up in the last few years"
I was just reporting what I heard on the news, oil prices are predicted to go up this summer, I did not make it up. The report I heard on the news was that oil prices were predicted to hit new highs again this summer.
Go ahead and Google oil prices yourself, and tell me they are going down. But go ahead and make this about what I said, and not about the actual topic at hand, which is raising taxes on gasoline when the prise is predicted to go up.
It won't. It will be another lie, just like when they tell the public that bridge tolls will end once the construction costs are paid for.
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Originally Posted by aplcr0331
You're not actually naive enough to believe that 100% of it would go to fix our infrastructure are you?
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Originally Posted by Goinback2011
Impose a leech tax on all welfare.
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Originally Posted by Kracer
This is the height of hubris.
To ask for more tax money while wasting billions incentivises an uprising.
Who in their right mind would not tell both these senators to go find the money in their infinite flow of tax payer cash they light their cigars with and give to cronies.
Dump both these guys next election as they are throwbacks from the height of government corruption and cronyism.
No dedicated tax ever ends up where it was promised.
Only a fool would think raising the gas tax is a sound idea.
Sure,the stimulus provided all the cash that would ever be needed for infrastructure repair...where is that money?
You enjoyed seeing Obama half snicker when asked about his promise of shovel ready jobs?
Gasoline is our sacred cow. Stay away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest
This thread proves how people will fall for any excuse. Maybe if the already collected revenue wasnt diverted to other things there would be enough in the pot? I doubt it since it has been spending more than it takes in for decades, but it would be a start.
Fyi the fed guv stole er uh collected record tax revenue in 2012,2013 and thus far in 2014 and still we see the big government whiners advocating it steal er uh collect more out of our paychecks.
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Originally Posted by Quick Enough
So what you are saying they built roads BEFORE they had a plan to maintain them.
And you want to give them even MORE money?
It always comes back to, what did they do with the money the collected?
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Originally Posted by MJJersey
It never ends and it's never enough. New Jersey wants to raise the gas tax 15 cents to fix infrastructure. We already pay tolls on the two main roads, tolls at the bridges, we already have a gas tax, we have the highest property taxes, high sales tax, high income tax... it's never enough and they will never use it to actually fix anything. They will give it to a politically connected contractor to stand on the road with a "slow" sign for 6 months and then tell us that the money is gone and they need to raise taxes again.
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Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake
NOT JUST NO, BUT F NO. Not until money collected from fuel taxes is dedicated to highway construction and maintenance and nothing else. No wasting it on subsidizing fares on mass transit, riders can pay their own way. And for damn sure no wasting it on bike trails-bike riders can also learn to pay their own way for places to ride their toys.
So let's summarize this thread.
Don't increase taxes for its intended purpose, because the government wastes some of it.
That logic is equivalent to.. don't make laws because people break them. Why even have a government? None of you want it anyway.
NOT JUST NO, BUT F NO. Not until money collected from fuel taxes is dedicated to highway construction and maintenance and nothing else. No wasting it on subsidizing fares on mass transit, riders can pay their own way. And for damn sure no wasting it on bike trails-bike riders can also learn to pay their own way for places to ride their toys.
oh get over yourself.
I ride to work on my bicycle.
I own a car.
I pay registration / vehicle fees.
I pay gas tax when I actually use gas.
I pay income tax.
I pay sales tax
I pay property tax.
Get off your moral high horse. Only 50% of road maintenance is covered by gas taxes and tolls now. Surprise? The other 50% is subsidy from people like me who pay income taxes but don't contribute to road damage. I am subsidizingYOU. Let that sink in and focus on curing your car-oil dependency.
Last edited by Opin_Yunated; 06-20-2014 at 07:32 AM..
I thought the trillion dollar stimulus was supposed to go towards infrastructure?
Yes, let's talk about stimulus.
Stimulus was used by Republican governors to fix their own budget deficits, so that they can give more tax cuts to their wealthy. The stimulus money allocated to states for infrastructure was blocked. The most notables were Ohio, Florida, and Wisconsin; all of whom had Republican governors that turned down >$1 billion to improve rail infrastructure.
Don't even get me started on the Republican governors that openly denied Medicaid expansion, paid for by the Fed.
The right wing constantly complains about stimulus and Federal government doing nothing, while they do their damnest to make sure it fails.
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Originally Posted by Quick Enough
I get it. The fed raises CAFE (I believe that is what it is called) standards in order to make cars get better gas mileage which lowers consumption which in theory lowers how much money the fed takes in in taxes.
Being the very smart business men that they are, they NOW want to RAISE the taxes, wait for it, in order to make up for the lost tax revenue they CREATED with Cafe standards.
And some actually support them believing they know what they are doing!
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Originally Posted by hoffdano
I see nothing in the news to validate this. Please provide a link.
Gasoline consumption is decreasing, because MPG is increasing and people are driving less. Yet the roads, bridges, etc. need funding. Hybrid and electric car drivers are under-funding the roads they drive on.
But you see the issue is clear...
Highway gas taxes go toward the trust fund.. which goes to infrastructure. If infrastructure funding isn't covered, the difference is drawn from income taxes to fund the bare minimum maintenance. In the end, we get awful roads and higher income taxes.
Why wouldn't we want drivers to pay for their own infrastructure? Sounds hypocritical...
Don't raise the gas tax? More income tax will be diverted from the general fund to go towards bare minimum maintenence. Crappy roads will continue, businesses will suffer, and more tax money will be "wasted" from the general fund which could go to more beneficial services. Sound good?
I see nothing in the news to validate this. Please provide a link.
Gasoline consumption is decreasing, because MPG is increasing and people are driving less. Yet the roads, bridges, etc. need funding. Hybrid and electric car drivers are under-funding the roads they drive on.
I own a car.
I pay registration / vehicle fees.
I pay gas tax when I actually use gas.
I pay income tax.
I pay sales tax
I pay property tax.
Get off your moral high horse. Only 50% of road maintenance is covered by gas taxes and tolls now. Surprise? The other 50% is subsidy from people like me who pay income taxes but don't contribute to road damage. I am subsidizingYOU. Let that sink in and focus on curing your car-oil dependency.
First, only 60% of the fuel tax collected actually goes to highway construction and maintenance. This is borderline criminal. Paying for Pet Projects at the Pump | NCPA
c
Quote:
Federally Mandated Enhancement Projects. In order to
receive federal highway funds, the states must comply with myriad federal
mandates. For example:
The Davis-Bacon Act requires most federally funded highway construction
projects to pay workers union wages and benefits, which are usually higher than
market wages and benefits.
Some funds may only be used in areas that do not meet Environmental
Protection Agency air quality standards, on projects intended to reduce
emissions, such as carpool lanes or roundabouts to improve traffic
flow.
About 10 percent of federal highway funds in the Surface Transportation Program must be used for traffic enhancements, such as highway beautification and transportation museums. Between 2005 and 2009, the program averaged $6.51
billion in revenue. This is a sizable portion of the roughly $32 billion a year
in revenues collected by the Highway Trust Fund.
another example
Quote:
The Federal Highway Administration also allocates gas tax revenues to
programs that are tangentially related to transportation, but do not involve
building and maintaining roads and bridges. Indeed:
From 1992-2010, $4.89 billion went to pedestrian and bicycle facilities,
according to the National Transportation Enhancements Clearinghouse.
Another $1.26 billion was used for landscaping and scenic
beautification.
In addition, mass transit projects are allocated 2.86 cents of the 18.4 cent federal fuel tax, a diversion of about 16 percent of the tax from highway users.
If we actually spent the entire gas tax on highways, there would be no, or very little, "shortfall".
Quit wasting fuel tax on non-highway projects. Make mass transit riders pay their own way, and have bicyclists pay for their own toys. Take it further and eliminate the requirement for Davis-Bacon prevailing wage provisions that has someone holding a stop sign making $30 an hour and require that any tax money only go to the lowest bidder with a proven record, with no requirement to support union or minority owned contractors. Once the theft of gas tax funds is addressed, and public projects are actually managed in an efficient manner, I'm willing to consider more in fuel tax.
Its just a proposal with the need for more highway funds. I think it should be addressed more at state level and local level really. The stimulus was just a example of spin as we saw what it was sold as and what really happened to the money.
This is desperately needed. Considering it took 20 years since the last one maybe they should index it to inflation while they're at it.
I think that they should just get rid of the entire tax on gas, it is not as if the feds do anything at all to make the gas at all.
also, if they pass such a tax, then they should update all refineries and make more new efficient refineries.
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