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However today it's used more as a symbol of Southern Pride...
This, I just don't get. The South has been around for centuries and presumably done stuff to take pride in for as long. Yet you pick a symbol that spans what, 5 years of that heritage? - and the exact 5 years where The South acted on what could generously be described as questionable motives. Is that really the best symbol you can think of?
I don't think it's necessarily racist in every use, although of course some highly racist organizations embrace it willingly and that's certainly to be considered. If nothing else, you're clearly saying "I don't worry too much about being taken for a racist", which seems abit odd to me.
Personally, I put it somewhere along Che Guevara - it's sported by people who want to signal "I'm a Rebel!" yet generally not too clear on what they're rebelling against, much less able to verbalize what alternative they're actually for.
Last edited by Dane_in_LA; 08-26-2013 at 07:01 PM..
Why do some people still think that the Confederate Flag is racist?
Because they are whiny idiots trying to impose their values on the general public by using the LSD tried and tested method of screaming racism at whatever they don't like.
I've never seen neo Nazi's in South Carolina. The most racist parts of the country that I've been to were the Pacific Northwest region an surprisingly Hawaii. No neo Nazi's in the latter but a lot of the native Hawaiians hate white people.
However in both places racists were the minority.
I am from Hawaii and the vast majority of those of us with Hawaiian blood are mixed with a LOT of Haole. I have more Haole blood than any other (my unmarried surname is absolutely British). My Hubby of 26 years is as White as it is possible to be and he is from Alabama. He has NEVER had any problem traveling around the Islands on his own because he treats people with kindness and respect.
He has his own Stars and Bars and knows the history of his family. He will not display the flag because he does not want anyone to feel uncomfortable. His Southern roots are deep but he does not live in the past.
I've never seen neo Nazi's in South Carolina. The most racist parts of the country that I've been to were the Pacific Northwest region an surprisingly Hawaii. No neo Nazi's in the latter but a lot of the native Hawaiians hate white people.
However in both places racists were the minority.
Here's a picture. The rally was on April 20, 2007. Hitler's birthday, on the steps of the South Carolina State house. To the right hand side of the picture you see the CBF that still flies on state property.
SMH...and then people want to get upset when a Mexican or other person of recent foreign background flies another nation's flag. Yet the Confederate flag is as unAmerican as it gets. So next time you see other people flying flags from another nation remember...."IT'S HERITAGE, NOT HATE."
I've only had hospitality from my 'Dixie' customers but when I visit (any town) I invariably have be driven past the court house to see 'the cannon'. The Civil War still looms large in the south.
For what it's worth, the South was well-known for its military traditions long before the Civil War. Besides, most cannons have a unique history behind them that is connected to the location they're in. It also greatly depends on what part of the South you go to - the Mississippi Delta by and large never recovered from the Civil War, whereas Tennessee, South Carolina, and (northern) Georgia are as modern as anywhere else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn
Why do some people still think that the Confederate Flag is racist?
(patiently)
Because it represented a nation that supported institutionalized racial slavery.
So does the Stars and Stripes. Slave ships bound for America proudly flew the American flag, and a good chunk of the United States supported slavery for centuries - does that make the American flag a symbol of racism? Also, the American flag flew over all the Japanese internment camps during WWII. With the accumulated racism and slavery that has taken place under American control I'd think the Stars and Stripes would be more racist than the Battle Flag. Except that it isn't racist because there's much more to American ideals, American culture, and America itself than racism. The same goes for the Confederate flag, which is today used and seen as a symbol of the South, Southern heritage, and Southern culture, in the same fashion that the American flag is used for the nation as a whole.
Yes... a history and heritage heavy on black slavery.
A war was fought over that (among other things), remember?
Sure. Ok.
But really, it goes deeper than that. If Southerners have such visceral feelings about the flag, and they say it's heritage, I'll take their word for it.
That doesn't mean I respect it because I don't. But I'm not gonna lay some heavy guilt trip about slavery over the issue. Today's Southerners weren't around during slavery, so it's silly to bring that up. They know better than anyone else about how blacks like myself feel about the flag without going there.
They lost, and if they wanna be proud losers, then I'm hardly inclined to stand in the way of that.
This, I just don't get. The South has been around for centuries and presumably done stuff to take pride in for as long. Yet you pick a symbol that spans what, 5 years of that heritage? - and the exact 5 years where The South acted on what could generously be described as questionable motives. Is that really the best symbol you can think of?
I don't think it's necessarily racist in every use, although of course some highly racist organizations embrace it willingly and that's certainly to be considered. If nothing else, you're clearly saying "I don't worry too much about being taken for a racist", which seems abit odd to me.
Personally, I put it somewhere along Che Guevara - it's sported by people who want to signal "I'm a Rebel!" yet generally not too clear on what they're rebelling against, much less able to verbalize what alternative they're actually for.
ITA with this, especially the bolded area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricius Maximus
For what it's worth, the South was well-known for its military traditions long before the Civil War. Besides, most cannons have a unique history behind them that is connected to the location they're in. It also greatly depends on what part of the South you go to - the Mississippi Delta by and large never recovered from the Civil War, whereas Tennessee, South Carolina, and (northern) Georgia are as modern as anywhere else.
So does the Stars and Stripes. Slave ships bound for America proudly flew the American flag, and a good chunk of the United States supported slavery for centuries - does that make the American flag a symbol of racism? Also, the American flag flew over all the Japanese internment camps during WWII. With the accumulated racism and slavery that has taken place under American control I'd think the Stars and Stripes would be more racist than the Battle Flag. Except that it isn't racist because there's much more to American ideals, American culture, and America itself than racism. The same goes for the Confederate flag, which is today used and seen as a symbol of the South, Southern heritage, and Southern culture, in the same fashion that the American flag is used for the nation as a whole.
But the south is a part of America. Why do you need another flag for your culture especially one that does not represent your ethnicity such as an Irish flag or an Italian flag or a German flag. "Southern" is not an ethnicity and your culture is American, so the American flag should suffice.
This is why I feel like the poster I quoted above, that it is more of symbolizing a rebellion and of being a rebel. New Englanders have a cultural heritage. The West, has more prestige in our country than the South but New England and The West don't have a flag to show to celebrate their "pride." They are Americans and have their cultural traditions as their pride instead.
So in many ways, I see the south as having nothing to be proud of except a flag when they say this flag represents their "southern heritage."
And FWIW, I am black but don't view the flag as a racist symbol but instead as a symbol of ignorance and a defeated rebellion. I see people who insist on continuing to wave it as people who would like to continue said rebellion. It is a battle flag. Last I heard the Civil War ended in 1865, there is no more need for a battle flag unless you are still rebelling and waging your own silent, ignorant battle.
Be proud of "southern hospitality" or use the magnolia flower as your symbol, it smells good and is pretty and comes from a beautiful, large, majestic tree. Use southern cooking as a symbol of your pride (but healthy it up a bit). Use the Civil Rights Movement as a symbol of pride for the south, even though many fought against segregation, the largest social movement in our country's history took place, primarily in the south and many people, both black and white, worked to ensure our country's promise of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness during this time period. There is so much to find cultural heritage over in the south other than a battle flag.
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