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A large number of illegal guns are burglarized from private homes. This isn't going to be very popular, but legal gunowners should be held at least partially liable. Mandatory gun safes. (Even if it's just a modified bike lock bolted to concrete poured into an old tin washtub.) Your piece is either on your person, within 20 feet of you, or locked away. If you don't make a substantial effort to keep your gun secured, and it gets stolen and ends up being used in a crime, you can be held liable. Not like years in prison or anything, but maybe a big fat fine, confiscation of the rest of your guns, or be open to civil action.
Go after crooked gun sellers. They're out there. Redouble efforts to snag them and toss them into federal dungeons for a long time.
I'm not enthusiastically promoting these particular ideas (very mixed feelings), but neither do I think it's impossible to at least make a dent in the number of illegal guns floating around out there in the hands of violent felons.
Edited to Add: Just went through an old thread. It turns out the vast majority are due to crooked licensed dealers (as well as private sales) and that the ATF's hands are tied. Well, shoot. Untie their hands and throw those damned crooked dealers into the dungeon.
Gun nuts are gun nuts and this nation has plenty. The NRA is the mouthpiece of the gun manufacturers and sellers.
Fewer and fewer households do own guns. This declining trend in gun ownership has been going on for a long time. The majority of American households don't own guns. This has been consistent across many polls over and over again.
So, this is the second time you have stated this with nothing to back up your claim....
This statement was made by Obama back in 2008 before becoming president.
“As President, I will uphold the constitutional rights of law-abiding gun-owners, hunters, and sportsmen…. We can work together to enact common-sense laws … so that guns do not fall into the hands of terrorists or criminals.”
Sounds nice - but how do you do that? How you keep guns away from criminals?
At a point in time, a criminal makes a first offense. Before that, he is a law abiding citizen. How do you take away the right for this person to own a gun when he hasn't done anything?
OK - now the person commits a crime. Is the criminal a felon? If yes- then that person is already banned from owning a firearm - unless a pardon is granted. If no - then there's a process required to be allowed to own a gun.
It's seems like the law is in place already for what Obama stated back then with reference to criminals. Why do we need more control?
Maybe we need to be tougher on the people when the crimes are committed instead of concerning ourselves with the guns.
Maybe we need to act more quickly with regards to the justice system instead of allowing a bunch of time to pass before the court case begins.
Maybe we need to find out how existing criminals get the guns and cut off that supply chain instead of insisting that free people who are not criminals give up our guns. Oh, I forgot - our government sells guns, don't they?
The answer is simple... the death penalty. Any felon who uses a gun to commit a crime instantly gets the death penalty, no appeals, no stays, just goodbye.
A large number of illegal guns are burglarized from private homes. This isn't going to be very popular, but legal gunowners should be held at least partially liable. Mandatory gun safes. (Even if it's just a modified bike lock bolted to concrete poured into an old tin washtub.) Your piece is either on your person, within 20 feet of you, or locked away. If you don't make a substantial effort to keep your gun secured, and it gets stolen and ends up being used in a crime, you can be held liable. Not like years in prison or anything, but maybe a big fat fine, confiscation of the rest of your guns, or be open to civil action.
I am sorry but that's ridiculous!!!
If my gun is stolen from my home, I need to be liable??? Someone broke into my home and stole my gun, and I need to be responsible for his criminal act???
If I keep my gun at home, in a safe or not, loaded or not, it's considered secured; If I keep a gun on my, that's considered secured.
What kind of logic is that???!!!
Would you apply the same ridiculous logic to stolen cars? They are used in every crime that you can imagine.
Australia is a recent example, but I know, blah, blah, blah.
Yes it is; the trend I speak of has been going on for quite a while there. ONETWO
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73
What does immigration have to do with gun laws? Oh yeah, fear of the "other" xenophobia and gun nuttery general go together. So let me guess, the mexicans is gonna take over, or brown people the world over move to nations and don't respect the law.... just pure nonsense. I have no idea why you brought that up in this discussion.
You brought up gun control in other countries as being an exemplar of perfection. Their gun control (especially England) has been in force for centuries for political reasons. More recent enactments, in response to crime, are not all that successful because the criminals are not long standing members of British society and not accustomed or respectful of those British societal controls that have kept loyal British subjects happily disarmed thus not shooting each other.
I made no mention nor drew any correlation to the USA, so, assigning my comment some xenophobic aspect, the "mexicans is gonna take over" etc, is entirely a product of your mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73
The constitution can be amended, the supreme court can change decisions, congress can vote for new laws.
39 states are going to go along with your authoritarian ideas? LOL
For the Court to alter its holdings on the right to arms it would need to rewrite the entire foundation of rights theory it has operated under for over 200 years.
"Congress can vote for new laws" is the only part of this you got right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73
Just remember, the supreme court didn't say the government couldn't regulate gun ownership.
I know you think you know what the Court said, but what they actually said is not what you have been led to believe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73
So now the word households is a catch all? LOL Keep not knowing.
Well, it comes up often in "studies" that try to explain some sort of "gun effect" on society. "Households" is a nebulous, shapeshifting term that by including or excluding certain parameters can be made to show anything the authors want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73
You toss out another irrelevant insane conspiracy, the social scientists are out to get gun nuts, too? Who isn't out to get the gun nuts?
The Joyce Foundation is known for funding junk science that is outcome based. Their evil hand is in a wide selection of the incestuous academic / social science industry.
A large number of illegal guns are burglarized from private homes. This isn't going to be very popular, but legal gunowners should be held at least partially liable. Mandatory gun safes. (Even if it's just a modified bike lock bolted to concrete poured into an old tin washtub.) Your piece is either on your person, within 20 feet of you, or locked away. If you don't make a substantial effort to keep your gun secured, and it gets stolen and ends up being used in a crime, you can be held liable. Not like years in prison or anything, but maybe a big fat fine, confiscation of the rest of your guns, or be open to civil action.
Go after crooked gun sellers. They're out there. Redouble efforts to snag them and toss them into federal dungeons for a long time.
I'm not enthusiastically promoting these particular ideas (very mixed feelings), but neither do I think it's impossible to at least make a dent in the number of illegal guns floating around out there in the hands of violent felons.
Edited to Add: Just went through an old thread. It turns out the vast majority are due to crooked licensed dealers (as well as private sales) and that the ATF's hands are tied. Well, shoot. Untie their hands and throw those damned crooked dealers into the dungeon.
So if someone hotwires my car and uses it in a crime then I should be held responsible? Mandatory wheel boots for all cars so this doesn't happen.
Which thread? What do you mean by "crooked licensed dealers"? I ask that because I assume you are not familiar with the ATF checks on FFLs. They are required to keep a log book containing the serial number of each gun in and out of their possession. Let's say that Glock sent Jim's Guns and Pawn a shipment of 10 pistols but Jim only lists 8 on his incoming logs. At minimum, his license is suspended and at most, he can be sent to jail for falsifying records.
If you don't make a substantial effort to keep your gun secured, and it gets stolen and ends up being used in a crime, you can be held liable.
Are you going to apply that same criteria to automobiles?
How about this:
If you don't make a substantial effort to keep your computer secured, and it gets infected by a virus and ends up being used in a crime, you can be held liable.
Sound good? Billions of dollars are lost every year due to the spam problem alone. The losses due to phishing scams are also very substantial. It's time we started making the victims of crime pay for it! Yeah!!!
We are not other countries, we are larger, we have different ideas and a totally different way of life. If anyone thinks gun control of any kind will reduce gun violence it is time to get real. Criminals will always have guns, they will buy them off the black market or steal them. People who are off their rockers will get them from other people. I can accept background checks at gun shows, that is the only change that really makes sense.
Nita
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