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They are both statists, nothing can be done about them.
The problem is that they have a perceived interest or benefit from big-government statism. So they will defend it at all costs.
Even when James Madison himself rebukes their positions through his articles in the Federalist Papers, which were only published to convince the people to support the new constitution, they still ignore it. They believe the fact that since the states ratified the constitution, that they intended to give the federal government absolute control of everything in regards to everything. Yet, the federalist papers are mostly aimed at minimizing the belief among the people that the constitution gives the federal government more power than is actually intended.
If only you had looked it up before you misused it. Now... that's the third (i.e. less common) definition. Why are you skipping the other two.
I'm sorry, do you have a monopoly on context? lmao...
what the hell??
That is a very common usage of the word. Noam Chomsky would even agree.
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Ooooh. I can play that game too.
Frogs, mesons, footprints... not directly the people.
Kinda, almost funny and/or witty. But not really. But in the end.. you were wrong.
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No, no, No, NO, NO.... Congress does NOT ratify amendments.
The States do! And they each do it their own way. Some even (shock among shocks) a direct vote by the people.
And that is ratification by the people. Their elected representatives have no power, authority, influence, rationale, purpose or raison d'etre other than that single role. And it was even more true then than it is now.
For ratification it still has to be proposed and then approved by Congress... you are still only getting what is "offered". And for it to even get to that level is a very convoluted process.
The people DID NOT ratify the Constitution... And if you believe they did.. then why was it ratified in 1789.. and "the people" soon realized the glaring omission of peoples "rights" in the document. The Bill of Rights was not added until 1791.
So, any argument you have that this was carefully looked over with a fine tooth comb and digested is foolish. It was devised as a document of control.
One thing that this thread has taught me is that the depth of you ignorance is generally exceeded only by its breadth.
Whatever you say, pal.
LOL... "there was a minority."
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Wait for it. Here it comes again. Wait for it. Waaaaiiiiiit for iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!!!
Welcome to the human condition.
The "human condition" is just an argument for autonomy. Why do you not understand that using the "human condition" as leverage for a government of HUMANS is a circular argument. It's not as big of a dilemma as you are fabricating it to be.
If humans are so horribly inefficient....then it makes perfect sense to devolve them down to the most efficient block. The individual.
Tell him to leave a message.
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Now since so much of your whiny hand waving has to do with the fact that you are so offended that you didn't get to personally vote against the Constitution 225 years ago, I have good news:
It's still not imposed on you at all!!!
Among the shamefully few freedoms you have in the face of this oppressive and offensive state apparatus, you actually are completely free to leave any time you want! You don't have to "take it like a champ" at all. You can leave us all behind to chew our cud like the oppressed cattle we so obviously are.
Just don't let the corral gate hit on the ass on your way out.
For ratification it still has to be proposed and then approved by Congress... you are still only getting what is "offered". And for it to even get to that level is a very convoluted process.
But that's not ratification. First rule of holes, HH. Stop digging. It's bad enough when you make dunb mistakes. There is no need to defend them simply out of stubbornness.
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Originally Posted by Hot_Handz
The people DID NOT ratify the Constitution... And if you believe they did.. then why was it ratified in 1789.. and "the people" soon realized the glaring omission of peoples "rights" in the document. The Bill of Rights was not added until 1791.
You really should get around to reading the material I linked you to. Then you would not ask questions that reveal a complete vacuum of historical knowledge.
The eventual addition of the Bill of Rights was actual a precondition from several states to the ratification of the original document. This realization took place before it was ratified, not "soon" after.
Stop. Digging.
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Originally Posted by Hot_Handz
So, any argument you have that this was carefully looked over with a fine tooth comb and digested is foolish. It was devised as a document of control.
Stop. Digging.
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Originally Posted by Hot_Handz
The "human condition" is just an argument for autonomy. Why do you not understand that using the "human condition" as leverage for a government of HUMANS is a circular argument. It's not as big of a dilemma as you are fabricating it to be.
Nothing in that paragraph makes sense.
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Originally Posted by Hot_Handz
If humans are so horribly inefficient....then it makes perfect sense to devolve them down to the most efficient block. The individual.
The human individual is soon dead. That's why we're social animals in the first place.
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Originally Posted by Hot_Handz
Where can I go again??? There's a state EVERYWHERE....
What? Where? Road signs in Nebraska are not a movement.
He was and will always be the crazy maternal uncle that everybody puts up with for the holidays, hoping beyond hope he will not drop his pants after the second eggnog.
Oh yea.. so then you would know the definition of delusion as well. Probably better than me.
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But that's not ratification. First rule of holes, HH. Stop digging. It's bad enough when you make dunb mistakes. There is no need to defend them simply out of stubbornness.
I have ceded that ratification happens at the local level. My amendment still stands...
Refute it or don't. You only get to vote on what is chosen FOR you.
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You really should get around to reading the material I linked you to. Then you would not ask questions that reveal a complete vacuum of historical knowledge.
The eventual addition of the Bill of Rights was actual a precondition from several states to the ratification of the original document. This realization took place before it was ratified, not "soon" after.
The point WAS that the Constitution was drafted as a DEVICE, not as a check on power for the people. Did you wrap your brain around that? Did I not explicitly state that?
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Stop. Digging.
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digging??
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We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union
,
A more perfect union? What exactly do they mean by "more perfect"?? Do you know where the idea of a "perfect union" stems from? I'm guessing with a name like "HISTORIANDUDE" you will...So I will wait for the "history lesson" anytime you are ready.
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establish justice,
Establish justice?? Very arbitrary term...I'm sure here is where Einstein's "generic" (oops he DIDN'T SAY THAT about the Constitution.... let me correct that
"Framework" would apply.... hey, let's build a BIG frame that we can fit ANYTHING in
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insure domestic tranquility
Root word "tranquil" as in "tranquilized"....(since we are such a stickler for linguistics) Are we speaking nationally?? Within your home??? again, the funny interpretation thing happening here. What also is weird, is that both have been recognized. Take common society as an example....Why should I be forced to be tranquil on my own property in the event mayhem is surrounding me? Take castle doctrine laws for example...by neutering somebody through legislation...isn't that "domestic tranquility"??
Again, WHY would I want that?
,
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provide for the common defense,
Provide = pay, Common defense = ????
Boy...we can fit anything inside of that "framework" now can't we???? I'm sure you know about the origins of the "Military-Industrial Complex" don't you, Mr. History??
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promote the general welfare,
"promote" the general welfare....what DOESN'T that mean?
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and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity,
Ahhhh "secure the blessing of liberty to ourselves and posterity"... Well Well...yes...our current generation is sure enjoying "securing" the "blessing of liberty" for our baby boomers SS...
Thank goodness for this gener...framew....I mean VERY FLEXIBLE and adaptable set of rules our forefathers gave us... I mean, it really left NO LIMITS.
Wait, while we are having fun now...have I used any words out of context? Don't wanna be a "frat boy" Mr. Grammar.. er HistorianDude???
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do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
It's never been done...it's a ruse.
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Stop. Digging.
Ah, here hold my shovel, please.. *wipes dirt off* Oh, LOOK.. theres some old dead skeletons.
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Nothing in that paragraph makes sense.
What does a set of laws being imposed on a minority have to do with "the human condition"??? Better yet, how does it lend to YOUR argument??? You are throwing doo doo on the wall and hoping it sticks.
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The human individual is soon dead. That's why we're social animals in the first place.
The most isolated man in the world is laughing at you right now. We are only "social" by forced association and man made devices.
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Not this one.
Will you be making me leave?? or standing behind the "charged up tasers" blowing raspberries????
Something tells me you'd definitely be the latter....
That's all I heard was you crying because you hate RP and obviously don't understand him.
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