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I do not believe it is true that there are any witnesses who say they saw Trayvon slam Zimmerman's head to the ground. If you have such a witness report, please post it.
What you believe isn't really important when we're dealing with facts that have been out since this case made the news.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the prosecutor is facing some serious ethics and even criminal and civil proceedings over her handling of this case.
She better hope this case moves past the immunity hearing or the tables will turn on her very quickly.
This is exactly what happened in the Duke Lacrosse case. The case was shaky and much of the evidence did not support the victims' claim. People in the prosecutor's office didn't think charges should have been filed. But the DA was elected and his constituency was based in a black area. The media went bloodthirsty so he pressed for charges that were not supported, and he suppressed evidence (not saying that happened here). He was eventually disbarred.
In this case we know the first prosecutor didn't even think this was enough for manslaughter. The media went hysterical, the elected DA appointed a "special prosecutor" and now we have a second degree murder charge. If this case ends up falling apart and Zimmerman prevails, then I think another disbarment is in order.
Until I saw George in his court appearance, I didn't realize how small he is. He must be maybe 5'5, 140 pounds, max? and you're telling me he attacked a 6' 180 pounder? Probably not...!!
That's what I said at first. Yes, compared to the 2005 mug shots, he looks small. However, he was standing next to his attorney who is well over 6 ft. Second, he was booked weighing 185, 5'8" tall and his friends and family all said he lost a lot of weight since Feb. Taking them at their word, he could have weighed over 200 lbs on Feb 26. In any case, Trayvon Martin did not weigh 180. AFAIK he was 150 lbs. It's power and experience, not height, that wins a physical fight every time. The person with the history of violence, not the victim is the one most likely to start a fight.
However, regardless of height or weight, a gun is the great equalizer, as the expression goes. Do you think a hunter would have the nerve to be within 20 feet of a moose grazing if guns didn't kill? Animals aren't doing anything wrong when they're shot & killed all the time. In no way am I comparing a human being with an animal. However, the type of comments we're hearing from posters make my blood chill, as if they think of Trayvon Martin as subhuman. "He attacked Zimmerman, so he deserved to be shot." People will justify shooting an animal when it attacks, even when it's only protecting it's life or family. To me, it sounds as if they're doing the same thing when they blame an unarmed teenager for possibly beating a man who followed him and probably pulled out a gun. Nobody can possibly believe Zimmerman was casually walking back to his car when he knew someone he just chased could be lurking in the shadows, not unless he's a complete moron. He said to the police dispatcher, "He's running." In the original 911 tape, you can hear Zimmerman running after him. So he's running after someone he clearly tells the police is "up to no good" and "on drugs" and "he has something in his waistband" without planning to use his gun? Sorry, I don't believe it for a second.
She never directly addresses anyone who proves her wrong like I do on a regular basis. I expect more spin, twist and deflection like normal.
If Trayvon Martin could spin, deflect and twist half as good as his supporters he might still be alive today instead of getting shot while attacking someone with a gun.
IMO there is just way too much exaggeration about GZ and TM's past in the media, in the public and on this fora on ALL sides...Statements, facts and past records have been blown way out of proportion...Thank goodness this is in the court's hands, at least there will be some form of logical deciphering of fact vs fiction vs exaggeration....
That's what I said at first. Yes, compared to the 2005 mug shots, he looks small. However, he was standing next to his attorney who is well over 6 ft. Second, he was booked weighing 185, 5'8" tall and his friends and family all said he lost a lot of weight since Feb. Taking them at their word, he could have weighed over 200 lbs on Feb 26. In any case, Trayvon Martin did not weigh 180. AFAIK he was 150 lbs. It's power and experience, not height, that wins a physical fight every time. The person with the history of violence, not the victim is the one most likely to start a fight.
However, regardless of height or weight, a gun is the great equalizer, as the expression goes. Do you think a hunter would have the nerve to be within 20 feet of a moose grazing if guns didn't kill? Animals aren't doing anything wrong when they're shot & killed all the time. In no way am I comparing a human being with an animal. However, the type of comments we're hearing from posters make my blood chill, as if they think of Trayvon Martin as subhuman. "He attacked Zimmerman, so he deserved to be shot." People will justify shooting an animal when it attacks, even when it's only protecting it's life or family. To me, it sounds as if they're doing the same thing when they blame an unarmed teenager for possibly beating a man who followed him and probably pulled out a gun. Nobody can possibly believe Zimmerman was casually walking back to his car when he knew someone he just chased could be lurking in the shadows, not unless he's a complete moron. He said to the police dispatcher, "He's running." In the original 911 tape, you can hear Zimmerman running after him. So he's running after someone he clearly tells the police is "up to no good" and "on drugs" and "he has something in his waistband" without planning to use his gun? Sorry, I don't believe it for a second.
Well, if GZ did lose 15+ pounds in 2 months then he was just losing fat and water, which wouldn't help him much in a fight. It's true that a gun is a great equalizer, but the gun actually makes it more likely that Martin attacked Zimmerman. Why risk attacking a 6'3" younger man if you have a gun? Just hold the gun on him and wait for the police.
This is exactly what happened in the Duke Lacrosse case. The case was shaky and much of the evidence did not support the victims' claim. People in the prosecutor's office didn't think charges should have been filed. But the DA was elected and his constituency was based in a black area. The media went bloodthirsty so he pressed for charges that were not supported, and he suppressed evidence (not saying that happened here). He was eventually disbarred.
In this case we know the first prosecutor didn't even think this was enough for manslaughter. The media went hysterical, the elected DA appointed a "special prosecutor" and now we have a second degree murder charge. If this case ends up falling apart and Zimmerman prevails, then I think another disbarment is in order.
I posted early on that this case had a Duke Lacrosse feel to it. The parallels are striking and I'm hoping for a similar ending. The Duke Lacrosse players are out of the public eye and are presumably moving on with their lives. Hopefully Zimmerman can too after he's exonerated.
Theories that he may have had his gun out are moot. There is absolutely no evidence of that, and does not help support the probable cause necessary for an indictment under FL law.
Although I will say, it's pretty ludicrous to think he would have done that. He knew the police were minutes away, and he's going to point his gun at somebody who will then tell the cops what he just did? Please. And if your theory is that he was just hell-bent on murder, why call police dispatch to begin with. Also, if he'd had a gun out, the struggle would not have lasted long and in all likelihood Trayvon would never have gotten within fighting range.
Zimmerman's story makes much more sense, taking what we know about both guys and all the evidence into account.
But again, none of this matters. The burden is not on Zimmerman to prove his story is correct, but on the state to show probable cause that his self defense claim is false, and if they can do that then to show beyond a reasonable doubt that this was murder. The state can do neither of these things.
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