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I have been here from the first thread, and there has probably been close to 10,000 posts on this subject, and I have stated many times that GZ should have stayed in the car. You should try to catch up.
There were burglaries in his complex and he was watching to protect his home.
There are neighborhood watch people the next neighborhood behind me and there are two cars 24-7 with people who get out of the car and everything. There is no issue in walking part of your complex to see what is happening.
There is nothing illegal about asking someone you don't know about what they are doing there. Especially behind the complex.
The point in this was that Zimmerman called cops, they were coming and he had saw Martin run off.
While Zimmerman was going back to the car TM had to return and then off the patio of someone this last confrontation occurs.
Trayvon is on top killing GZ and supposedly at some point wants George's gun. George with no where to back up on his back shoots in self defense.
No, actually, Zimmerman was in his car and watching Martin (who was not a suspect, due to the fact that no crime was being committed) walk around when he called 911. Martin noticed him staring and fled, and Zimmerman pursued. This is all documented in Zimmerman's 911 call.
You left of a couple important details. Like the part where, when told "We don't need you to do that" Zimmerman answers "OK" and stops running.
Like how the "fleeing" 17 year old football player can't cover the 100 yards to his door in somewhere well over 4 minutes.
Like how Zimmerman waits several minutes at the entrance to the housing development. Then finally starts walking back to his vehicle...before encountering the "fleeing" Martin. Who, again was about 200 feet from his door.
If Martin was trying to get away from Zimmerman...why didn't he simply walk inside the house where he was staying and close the door?
It's understandable....the media, in thousands of lines of print, chooses to ignore those facts too.
You left of a couple important details. Like the part where, when told "We don't need you to do that" Zimmerman answers "OK" and stops running.
Like how the "fleeing" 17 year old football player can't cover the 100 yards to his door in somewhere well over 4 minutes.
Like how Zimmerman waits several minutes at the entrance to the housing development. Then finally starts walking back to his vehicle...before encountering the "fleeing" Martin. Who, again was about 200 feet from his door.
If Martin was trying to get away from Zimmerman...why didn't he simply walk inside the house where he was staying and close the door?
It's understandable....the media, in thousands of lines of print, chooses to ignore those facts too.
Literally, nothing you just posted has anything to do with what obviously happened between Zimmerman and Martin. 4 minutes? Zimmerman at the entrance to the complex? This is all just a figment of your imagination.
I agree, it makes a huge difference how the physical confrontation started. If GZ swung first, or attempted to restrain TM until the police arrived, then TM was within his rights to defend himself, and GZ should go to jail for starting a physical confrontation while armed. I don't think I would consider it 2nd degree murder, but manslaughter, yes.
It really doesn't make a difference who started it at any rate how would the prosecution prove who started it? A non-issue IMHO.
There are only two things we are certain about in this incident:
1. George Zimmerman was armed and he pursued Trayvon that night against the advice of the 911 dispatcher.
2. Trayvon Martin has a history of criminality and thuggish behavior.
Everything else is conjecture. We should let the legal process work its way through.
Agreed. I've said from the start that this isn't clear right side and wrong side. More a case of two humans that crossed paths, through fate. Both were looking for trouble (perhaps), but were armed (fists and a gun), and both were paranoid (each rightfully so). Either one could have changed the outcome of the encounter, with one small change in their behavior. But that's how life works sometimes.
Police on the phone told Zimmerman not to pursue Trayvon.
-Zimmerman did (Aggressor)
-Travyon on the phone saying why is this man following me?
-Zimmerman played cowboy, he had a gun and aggressively did not listen to the police & pursued Travyon unarmed
Literally, nothing you just posted has anything to do with what obviously happened between Zimmerman and Martin. 4 minutes? Zimmerman at the entrance to the complex? This is all just a figment of your imagination.
Let me help ya out with that...
From other reports, the distance between Martin's door (D) and where the shooting took place (F) is 210 feet.
Quote:
Key:
A – The Clubhouse for Retreat at Twin Lakes.
B – Community mailboxes.
C – Where George Zimmerman parked his truck.
D – Brandy Green’s Townhouse, where Trayvon was staying.
E – Zimmerman stopped and completed his 911 call for approximately eighty seconds.
F – The fight and shooting took place in this area.
G – Eyewitness “John’s” townhouse.
Let’s take a look at how events unfolded during the original 911 call Zimmerman made to report Trayvon as a suspicious person.
We can match things up on the map with the 911 call pretty much step-by-step.
0:15 – The best address I can give you is the clubhouse. [A]
0:45 – He’s just staring at the houses. Now he’s staring at me.
1:00 – He’s coming towards me.
1:20 – He’s coming to check me out.
2:08 – ****, he’s running.
2:14 – Sound of truck door being closed. [C]
2:20 – He’s heading towards the back entrance. [referring to E]
2:25 – Are you following him? Yep.
2:45 – He ran… Zimmerman stops and completes the 911 call. [E]
4:05 – Call ends.
Martin is initially reported as hanging out near the clubhouse, looking at houses and acting suspiciously. Then he walks by Zimmerman’s truck at around 1:30 on the 911 call and proceeds east.
At 2:08, Trayvon starts running. Six seconds later, we hear Zimmerman leave his truck to see where he went.
While Trayvon runs south towards Brandy Green’s townhouse, Zimmerman continues east, and remains on the line with the 911 dispatcher.
At a slow jogging pace, Trayvon is estimated to have arrived back at Brandy Green’s townhouse at around 2:40 on the 911 call.
Trayvon may have gone inside the townhouse, but it seems more likely that he remained outside to see if Zimmerman was still following him and just continued talking to his girlfriend over the next few minutes.
After a few minutes, Trayvon seems to have walked north, back up the sidewalk to confront Zimmerman about why he was followed.
George Zimmerman leaves his truck at 2:14 and reaches Retreat View Circle just over thirty seconds later at 2:45.
He agrees to stop pursuit at the dispatcher’s request. After the 911 call is complete, Zimmerman begins to head back to his truck to meet the police. At this point, he claims he was confronted by Trayvon, and walks a few steps down the sidewalk south to respond to him.
As we can see, it appears unlikely that Zimmerman ever “chased down” Martin. Zimmerman only pursued long enough to maintain visual contact to see what direction Trayvon was going.
Zimmerman traveled his entire route in around 30 seconds, he only went a very short distance and did so specifically to tell the 911 dispatcher where Trayvon had gone.
It wasn’t until several minutes later that their altercation took place, when Martin apparently doubled back to confront Zimmerman.
John, the eyewitness who lives in [G], picks up the account from there.
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