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For the past two years, SS has had to redeem some of its bonds to cover some benefit payouts.
You probably don't hold any US treasury bonds, but I sure wish you did because I would convince you that they are just "worthless" IOUs and then steal them from you by purchasing them for pennies on the dollar.
You prove the old biblical maxim, a fool and his money are easily parted.
For your sake, I am going to hope that you have never paid payroll taxes since you are so ready to forfeit on your investment if you have.
Yousee you try to make thsi personal about me isntead of asnwering.
But alas i will try again you do understand that current benifits are payed by current taxes not by a trust fund?
Yousee you try to make thsi personal about me isntead of asnwering.
But alas i will try again you do understand that current benifits are payed by current taxes not by a trust fund?
No offense, jet, but I can see you're a lost cause on this one. I'm going to quit responding. Again, I hope your tomfoolery doesn't cost you any money.
No offense, jet, but I can see you're a lost cause on this one. I'm going to quit responding. Again, I hope your tomfoolery doesn't cost you any money.
So you can not or refuse to answer a core question. Seems you do not want or care about the truth
The government has invested all that money in Treasury bonds, which are traditionally considered among the safest investments in the world.
But a Treasury bond, remember, is the way the government borrows money. So the government is lending the Social Security surplus to itself. And the obligation to repay those loans is the trust funds.
The federal government owes $2.5 trillion to the Social Security trust funds. And if the government doesn't pay that money, it will default on its debt — something the U.S. has never done in its history.
By the middle of the next decade, the Social Security surplus will turn into yearly deficits as more Baby Boomers retire. And the government will have to come up with hundreds of billions of dollars a year to cover its obligations to the trust fund.
"Raise taxes, cut Social Security benefits, cut other government spending, or borrow the money. That's the only way to repay the money."
Does anyone think it's a good idea to cancel $2.5 trillion dollars worth of US government debt by declaring the Social Security trust fund worthless?
That's what's really being floated here. Any politician who tries to convince you that the trust fund doesn't exist is just trying to make that pesky trust fund go away.
Personally, I think it's a terrible idea to get rid of it because a) my payroll taxes have helped to create it and b) if the US government defaulted on such a huge financial obligation its credit rating would go down to FFF-. If we declared those bonds to be worthless, China certainly wouldn't be eager to buy more bonds from us.
Those of you want the government to give you back the money you paid in, great -- to do that, it would have to borrow so that those treasury bonds can be redeemed. Do you really think now is the right time to borrow $2.5 trillion more from China and foreign investors?
That's a good link, Bigjon. That outlines the problem. The politicians who are telling us there is no trust fund are basically telling us we should forgive the debt the US government owes us. Our payroll taxes have purchased $2.5 trillion in US treasury bonds.
Are you willing to tell the US government .. what's a few trillion between friends? Go ahead and keep mine so you can pay China theirs?
That's a good link, Bigjon. That outlines the problem. The politicians who are telling us there is no trust fund are basically telling us we should forgive the debt the US government owes us. Our payroll taxes have purchased $2.5 trillion in US treasury bonds.
Are you willing to tell the US government .. what's a few trillion between friends? Go ahead and keep mine so you can pay China theirs?
So just say what you mean and mean what you say.
The government must shrink itself (yeah right), cut SS benefits (yeah right), borrow the money (What? Borrow money to pay back borrowed money?), or raise taxes (give it up "rich people") for it to pay back what it has borrowed from the "trust fund" (which was really just over payments someone, or a group of people, immediately sucked up).
The government must shrink itself (yeah right), cut SS benefits (yeah right), borrow the money (What? Borrow money to pay back borrowed money?), or raise taxes (give it up "rich people") for it to pay back what it has borrowed from the "trust fund" (which was really just over payments someone, or a group of people, immediately sucked up).
The trust fund exists whether you believe it does or not. The US government is financially obligated to pay $2.5 trillion dollars worth of benefits to those who have paid into SS. This fund will run out in 2037, which is why beneficiaries will receive full benefits until then. They will receive 77 percent of benefits thereafter, because 77 percent of benefits is about what payroll taxes bring in.
The US government can't default on this obligation even if it it was ran by all Tea Party members who tried to force it to. That would trigger a world wide global financial meltdown because it would mean that one of the world's safest debtors just told it's creditors -- *********, you're not getting the money I owe you.
The government is going to do something to pay that debt. That debt is very real. It's not "raided" or a "ponzi scheme" or whatever else nutjob politicians are saying this week. In this case, this is good news for those of us who hold that debt -- me and presumably you too.
So how do you favor that debt being paid? Personally, I like shrinking government through cutting waste and raising taxes back to the pre-Bush levels. You?
By the way, do you happen to hold any other US treasury bonds? If you do, and you want to sell them on the cheap to me, I will gladly buy them from you.
Thank you, quick. I can see from your response that you're the first poster on this thread who actually understands the real problem.
The fact that the US treasury bonds SS holds are special interest doesn't concern me at all. SS used to buy regular treasury bonds, but it worked out a deal where it gets bonds that can be redeemed any time at a lower rate. Big whoop -- basically, it's a treasury bond. It's backed the exactly the same way regular treasury bonds are.
However, you put your thumb exactly on the real problem. It's that the US government will have to borrow to pay some future SS benefits.
So, the American workers -- and please don't take that as a class term .. all American workers, rich, poor, middle, etc. -- currently hold 2.5 trillion in US treasury bonds. Do you think we should forfeit our right to collect because of the debt problem? We've paid into this for years. (I'm only 35, but I have 20 years of payroll taxes contributions, plus my employers matching payroll contributions.)
That's what certain politicians are really trying to convince us to do. They're not putting it like that, but they're basically saying -- what assets? those worthlesss things? they were raided years ago!!! just give them up ... in fact, hell, we'll give you a few pennies on the dollar for those worthless things.
Nope. No dice. I'm not a sucker. The US government should try to convince China its treasury holdings are a "ponzi scheme." It might have better luck. I recognize the value of the assets I hold. I'm not giving mine up for less than they are worth. Are you?
"Do you think we should forfeit our right to collect because of the debt problem?". Of all the proposals I have seen, I have never read where ANYONE would forfeit anything.
If there was a 2.5 trillion dollar fund that pays SS checks then why did the Dems say the government might not be able to pay SS benefits to the elderly if we did not raise the debt ceiling?
Just as last time, some people try to scare the elderly. There is enough revenue coming in to pay out ALL benefits to the elderly plus some other obligations.
The Obama Admin would have to make choices. Pay the elderly or close the Dept of Education for instance.
There are many other gov't programs that could be suspended/cancelled before cuts to the elderly would be made.
Elderly cuts would be political suicide.
Last edited by Quick Enough; 09-17-2011 at 02:37 PM..
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