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Why can't we have the 20,000 well paying jobs that come with this pipeline?
Because Obama is AFRAID that his environmental freaks won't vote for him.
If we don't allow this pipeline, it will be redirected westward toward British Columbia. If there is a leak, it still will happen near our Northern border. Same Continent.
Did you bother actually reading about the pipeline? It's not a black and white issue. While the Canadians claim that the project will yield 20,000 jobs and $7B in economic benefits, they're not exactly without their own interest in this.
A study by Cornell found that they were fudging the numbers in a huge way. For instance, they claim jobs and benefit from parts of pipeline that aren't part of the project and that ALREADY EXIST. Their estimate on the net effects:
1. Jobs 2500-4650 for 2 years
2. This would actually drive up the cost of gas in the midwest and take away any economic benefit
Did you bother actually reading about the pipeline? It's not a black and white issue. While the Canadians claim that the project will yield 20,000 jobs and $7B in economic benefits, they're not exactly without their own interest in this.
A study by Cornell found that they were fudging the numbers in a huge way. For instance, they claim jobs and benefit from parts of pipeline that aren't part of the project and that ALREADY EXIST. Their estimate on the net effects:
1. Jobs 2500-4650 for 2 years
2. This would actually drive up the cost of gas in the midwest and take away any economic benefit
Sorry, what was it you were whining about again? Did you bother reading about any of this? If not, why not?
First, you exclaim in a previous thread that a "Study shows that Social Conservatism is linked to lower intelligence".
So, you're off to a good start with me.
I read the assessment you posted from Cornell University.
Cornell is not the end all in this discussion. It is tree huggers that Obama has bowed down to, and as a result, he has obeyed, and jobs will not be created.
Only 4,650 new jobs? That would suck.
Drive up the cost of gas? Yeah, right.
If we had a REAL PRESIDENT we'd be getting these jobs.
It might not matter to you noexcuseforignorance, but there are a lot of people in this country who are trying to keep their homes.
As a Democrat, I think Obama should support the Keystone oil pipeline. This is a hot issue with liberals and environmentalists. As long as it is done safely, I think it would be good for the US and Canadian economies. I would rather see the US getting oil from an ally and trading partner, Canada, than from the other countries we import oil from.
I think my liberal friends should realize that if we get oil closer to home, that means we will be using less oil in the long run just based on the fact that the oil will travel a lot less distance to get to the US.
How are you feeling now that obama has decided, for purely POLITICAL reasons, to delay the project?
Canada will find a different route, jobs will be created, just not American jobs...all to appease the environmentalists.
First, you exclaim in a previous thread that a "Study shows that Social Conservatism is linked to lower intelligence".
So, you're off to a good start with me.
I read the assessment you posted from Cornell University.
Cornell is not the end all in this discussion. It is tree huggers that Obama has bowed down to, and as a result, he has obeyed, and jobs will not be created.
Only 4,650 new jobs? That would suck.
Drive up the cost of gas? Yeah, right.
If we had a REAL PRESIDENT we'd be getting these jobs.
It might not matter to you noexcuseforignorance, but there are a lot of people in this country who are trying to keep their homes.
The empirical evidence on this forum certainly seems to support the conclusion of the social conservatism study.
Basically your defense to the points that I brought up is nothing. If you can't even defend your opinions against the very first counterargument in your thread, you might as well hit the log out button.
Quote:
How are you feeling now that obama has decided, for purely POLITICAL reasons, to delay the project?
Canada will find a different route, jobs will be created, just not American jobs...all to appease the environmentalists.
Political? Read the whole thread. There's a pretty decent chance that this would cause the US TO LOSE JOBS. It would allow the Canadians to ship oil to different refineries at higher prices and thus seems likely to drive up the cost of gas in the midwest by 10-20 cents. That would cost a LOT of jobs in the US, but would be good if you work for the Canadian oil industry or are Canadian.
Canada will build another pipeline? To where? Have you been to Canada? Have you been to Alberta? Do you understand Canadian politics? Do you understand the geography? If you did, you'd realize how empty it is that Canadian oil industry would get another pipeline put through anywhere. Seriously, if you don't know any of the above, why are you even commenting on anything to do with Canada.
There's no politics here. Just a very big decision with potential adverse consequences that people are trying to think through. Unfortunately, it has some poorly educated, ignorant conservative's panties in a bunch because they think they know what they're talking about. Just because conservative talk radio whines about something doesn't mean that it is accurate or relevant. It just means that it pulls at people's heart strings.
Sinrene, feel free to man up and explain WHAT DIFFERENT ROUTE THE CANADIANS WOULD TAKE.
It doesn't matter if some of the pipeline oil would go elsewhere. It's still raising the supply of oil, lowering the price. Oil is traded on the world market.
Canada’s ticket to selling its petroleum to Asia is Enbridge Inc.’s $5.5-billion Northern Gateway pipeline, which would ship oil sands bitumen from northern Alberta to a marine facility in Kitimat, B.C., where oil would be unloaded onto tankers for export.
Why not? It will get there eventually, whether we cooperate or NOT.
There is NO debate obama sacrificed jobs for politics, hoping he appeased the environmentalists well enough to support his re-election. Shameful, criminal.
That pipeline already exists. Folks in BC won't let them build pipelines. To my points before. You noted that they would build pipelines. They won't.
Quote:
Why not? It will get there eventually, whether we cooperate or NOT.
There is NO debate obama sacrificed jobs for politics, hoping he appeased the environmentalists well enough to support his re-election. Shameful, criminal.
Oil from the tar sands ALREADY is coming to US refineries. You haven't proved that any jobs were sacrificed here. Again, you're basing your emotions (I can't even say opinion because you're just speaking on emotion) here on a report from a company that wants to sell the product it is already selling to US refineries to other US refineries at a higher price.
This has nothing to do with environmentalism. YOU HAVEN'T PROVEN THAT THERE IS ANY ECONOMIC BENEFIT.
I'm not sure how you can't understand that. I guess it's hard admitting that you were wrong.
Kudos to you, Winter_Sucks! I can't count the issues we disagree on, but this is a great point of view.
That oil is coming out of the ground, and it is going places. Some of it by rail and truck to the US...far worse environmentally than the pipeline. Some of it to ports for export to Asia and other countries..far worse politically than coming to the US.
Too bad Obama has voted "present" on this issue, punting until after the election.
He's stalling on this because he doesn't have a choice. The Nebraska general assembly is meeting in special session now to write legislation for new regs that would force keystone to move their proposed pipeline route out of the sandhills region of the state and into a geologically safer area next to an existing pipeline in eastern nebraska. The line route never should have been proposed through the sandhills--there currently is no drilling or pipe running through that region because a leak would easily contaminate the ogallala aquifer.
As for jobs--I've never heard the big numbers some of you are quoting outside of this board. The nebraska press numbers are between 4-5 thousand temp construction jobs.
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