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[] Since 1933, no dollars have circulated. Pursuant to Title 12 USC sec. 411, "dollar bills" are IOUs, borrowed into existence, at usury. Any "trust fund" comprised of "dollar bills" has no par value...(blah blah blah)
And then,..... if some catastrophe kills off all of their well made plans for retirement or disability and, they have not paid into S.S what will they do? Go on "Welfare"?
Just SUPPOSE they (whomever) should become drastically ill and burn through their 401k's and savings leaving them without any means of support. S.S. was designed as a "safety net" for those unable to support themselves. It's an insurance.
Instead of that 15% going to SS, why not buy US Savings bonds? You get a better return and all of it is yours tax free.
Why should we earn an income, pay taxes on it, pay SS taxes, then when we "get" our SS check have to pay more taxes an the amount of SS we get?
Instead of that 15% going to SS, why not buy US Savings bonds? You get a better return and all of it is yours tax free.
Why should we earn an income, pay taxes on it, pay SS taxes, then when we "get" our SS check have to pay more taxes an the amount of SS we get?
First, U.S. Savings bonds are not tax-free. They are only free of state taxes.
Second, half of that 15% is paid by employers. Without SSA the employer would keep their portion not hand it over to employees.
Third, US Savings bonds are loans to the government. What's the difference if I have a promise from the government through savings bonds or through SSA?
"Dollar bills" are IOUs, and part of the debt. Ergo, they cannot pay off the debt, being part of it. And to pay the interest, Congress must borrow more, to create more "dollar bills". And the so-called "Trust Fund" is a stack of IOUs, that can only be redeemed by higher taxes... and more debt.
In fact, there is nothing in the law that prevents Congress from taxing entitlements - making the recipient his own donor.... while they keep taking a healthy skim.
And this bizarre situation cannot be challenged, pursuant to sec. 4, 14th amendment, USCON.
"Dollar bills" are IOUs, and part of the debt. Ergo, they cannot pay off the debt, being part of it. And to pay the interest, Congress must borrow more, to create more "dollar bills". And the so-called "Trust Fund" is a stack of IOUs, that can only be redeemed by higher taxes... and more debt.
In fact, there is nothing in the law that prevents Congress from taxing entitlements - making the recipient his own donor.... while they keep taking a healthy skim.
And this bizarre situation cannot be challenged, pursuant to sec. 4, 14th amendment, USCON.
Not only can dollar bills pay off debt, they have in the past. What prevents paying off the debt is an unwillingness to have tax-rates that actually meet expenses demanded by Americans, not some loony theory that paper money really isn't money.
Not only can dollar bills pay off debt, they have in the past. What prevents paying off the debt is an unwillingness to have tax-rates that actually meet expenses demanded by Americans, not some loony theory that paper money really isn't money.
it would literally be impossible for tax rates to meet the expenses of this government, and all the promises that it has made.
the tax rates necessary would completely choke the private sector.
of course, the government wouldn't want you to think about that or you might get a little worried.
First, U.S. Savings bonds are not tax-free. They are only free of state taxes.
Second, half of that 15% is paid by employers. Without SSA the employer would keep their portion not hand it over to employees.
Third, US Savings bonds are loans to the government. What's the difference if I have a promise from the government through savings bonds or through SSA?
SS is a terrible investment. If a person started paying into SS 25 years ago and retired today, they would see a 1.4% return on investment. If that same person invested in an index fund tracking the DOW average, they would see an 11.4% return.
Anyone who thinks that SS is a good thing for citizens (from a financial point of view) is nothing short of ignorant.
it would literally be impossible for tax rates to meet the expenses of this government, and all the promises that it has made.
the tax rates necessary would completely choke the private sector.
)
That just is factually incorrect. The nation ran a surplus with the tax-rates under Clinton and not only did those taxes not "completely choke the private sector" the economy prospered. Right now, the government employs the same number of people as it did in 2000. There are no new permanent government programs. The current large deficits are directly resultant from the poor economy.
The meme you are pedaling about 'economy killing taxes' was completely refuted by the best investor the world knows, Warren Buffett, who said investors over a 60 year period are not scared off by taxes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq
Anyone who thinks that SS is a good thing for citizens (from a financial point of view) is nothing short of ignorant.
I can easily find millions of seniors who would disagree.
Most Americans are led to believe that they 'pay into' a trust fund, and that they are 'owed' entitlements.
Worse, they will fight to the death in opposition of any reduction in what they believe they are entitled to.
But that's based on a BIG LIE.
It has long been law that there is no legal right to Social Security. In two important cases, Helvering v. Davis and Flemming v. Nestor, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Social Security taxes are simply taxes and convey no property or contractual rights to Social Security benefits.
==============================
Socialist InSecurity was and is nothing but a scam, a tontine, a means to raise taxes in the midst of the Depression, while creating a self interest bloc that will madly fight for their share of the treasury regardless of the consequences to the nation. In short, they're recipients of a bribe, paid by current taxpayers, dispensed by the jolly Congress - masters of bribery. It is abominable that parents are misled to enroll their infants into FICA before they even leave the hospital.
There is no way to reform SocSec. The only viable solution is to withdraw from it.
Of course, you do know that participation is 100% voluntary. If there was a law compelling participation, it would be involuntary servitude and unconstitutional in the United States of America.
Don't believe me - go read the law. Or write a polite questionnaire to your congressman:
1. What law compels all Americans in the USA to enroll in FICA?
2. What law punishes any American who does not participate in FICA?
3. What law punishes any American business that hires unnumbered Americans?
4. If participation is voluntary, what is the official procedure to withdraw from FICA?
Don't hold your breath waiting for an answer. Most folks only receive silence.
(Is that "Hotel California" playing in the background?)
I agree that Social Security is a scam, and I would gladly stop paying in now even though my spouse and I have already lost $200,000 in taxes just for SS/Medicare. Since the $2.6 trillion Social Security Trust Fund has been spent and is gone, and there aren't enough future workers to pay for all the people in the Baby Boom, there's simply no way government can meet these obligations, even if it wants to.
But when I went looking for specifics, I found no real way for the average citizen to get out of this failing Ponzi Scam:
"There is no legal requirement for individuals to join or participate in the Social Security program. However, the FICA taxes imposed are mandatory on covered workers and the self-employed who are covered. Employers are required to report wages to Social Security for processing Forms W-2 and W-3. There are some specific groups which are not required to pay into the Social Security program. Internal Revenue Code Provisions section 3101 imposes payroll taxes on individuals and employer matching taxes...the payroll tax is mandatory on everyone in employment earning "wages" as defined in 3121 of the Internal Revenue Code, and also taxes net earnings from self-employment....The only legal way to "opt out" of paying social security benefits is to belong to a religous group that does not believe in the social security system." How do I opt-out of the Social Security system?
And BTW, the politicians want us to think that Social Security is solvent until 2035. That would be true only if the $2.6 trillion that was supposed to be in the SS Trust Fund hadn't been spent on other things, like wars. The government still counts the $2.6 trillion as a "bookkeeping asset"--but it is gone, replaced with IOUs for future tax increases or benefits reductions. They call these IOUs "special securities" in order to fool the uneducated masses, but even the government admits the truth:
"These [Trust Fund] balances are available to finance future benefit payments and other Trust Fund expenditures – but only in a bookkeeping sense.... They do not consist of real economic assets that can be drawn down in the future to fund benefits. Instead, they are claims on the Treasury that, when redeemed, will have to be financed by raising taxes, borrowing from the public, or reducing benefits or other expenditures." --FY 2000 Budget, Analytical Perspectives, p. 337.
We can't escape being in the working classes, and paying massive taxes that we will never see any benefit from....Unless, on the other hand, we elect Ron Paul in 2012 and start reducing our corrupt and overgrown government so that it serves the average citizen, instead of the few powerful Special Interests and Big Businesses.
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