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I like to argue and I would say I am quite the troll myself sometimes, but when it comes to politics, I can't bring myself to join the whole Left vs Right mud slinging fest.
It's just been so overdone, it bores me to no end. I usually stop listening or reading any argument who take that direction. I can't bring myself to care, even if I try real hard.
The sad thing is that most of the people who join these fights have no real understanding of what is the left or the right. They are emotionally driven and what matters is that they have some group to throw their frustrations upon.
You'd think these people would be the minority, a very loud minority, but it seems that most people cannot refrain from taking jabs at the other side.
I think it's disapointing that we've reach that point. We could have very interesting conversations if we tried a little. Yet most people will dumb down problems to the point where it becomes binary, when in fact, issues today are growing in complexity. People will display their ugliest and stupidest side through the "debate" when in fact, most of us have some level of education we could put to use. And finally, most people will only go to information sources (infotainment) that validates their preconceptions, when in fact, we we have access to unprecedented amounts of information.
I think debating shouldn't be viewed as an opportunity to vent, but as something serious that requires time and effort. If they're not ready to invest some time reading others arguments and providing their own with some seriousness, they should remain silent. Not because I believe in censorship or anything, but because they're only adding to the noise.
I'm sure these people could find a better outlet than politics.
I would say you are preaching to the wrong crowd. If that is the type of debate you want to pursue, this, for the most part, is not the place.
You will find it nearly impossible to check any thread that has not or will not break down into a heated argument, debate, fight, whatever you want to call it, most all end up the same and that is because the people here want that IMHO.
The thing that really annoys me is when people get in denial that all of us, liberal and conservative, are being pulled by puppet strings. And when people break away from the puppet master and try to spread the message, those people that live in a fantasy dreamworld will call you a kook, conspiracy theorist, racist, tinfoil helmet, etc.
Respectfully, I disagree.
I would argue just the opposite, the reason we have a huge debt and deficit is because government spends more than it brings in! That is pretty simple. The answer is very simple also.........if you are a Conservative, it is cut spending and reduce the size of government. If you are a liberal, it is keep raising taxes to keep up with growing government. Aha.........................
They really don't get it. Might want to ask themselves how is it that $4 TRILLION is not enough to satisfy all entitlements and obligations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal77
Statistics show that it takes money to get OUT of a recession or depression.
History shows that massive expansion and overspending of the obama kind prolongs depressions and cripples economies during recessions.
Taking money OUT of the private sector to give it to the federal government (a bloated, bureaucratic behemoth that is inefficient, wasteful and ineffective) is a sure fire way to destroying the economy.
Statistics show that it takes money to get OUT of a recession or depression.
Statistics show that you have to repay the debt at some point, and I forget where I heard it, Ron Paul most likely, but I heard that FDR prolonged the depression by not letting the markets correct themselves.
In this age of media overload and sound bites, it seems that sadly many people:
(a) Need complex political discussions broken down in to such simplistic terms that the problem is no longer accurately represented.
and
(b) Cheer for their political party like a football team and instead of intelligent, thoughtful rejoinder offer "In your face...", "Not in a million Years", and other simplistic pejoratives as actual argument.
Have we become so stupid... so simplistic... as a nation that we need political discussions framed in an us versus them vernacular? Are we too lazy to look at the breadth a depth of a political, social or international issue and realize there is no singular solution (whether conservative or liberal) that will satisfy all?
The level of rhetoric on this forum is a complete embarrassment.
This is the latest right wing canard that only serves to further the divide. I'm certain the overwhelming majority of progressives don't feel that the government is there to take care of "us."
The government provides a safety net for the small minority unable to care for themselves.
The government has many other functions as well some of which (hopefully) even you support.
Misstating liberal intent has become fashionable on CD and it's modeled after right wing radio and Fox. The actual liberal stances are ignored for ridiculous caricatures which sound funny when Rush describes them, but have no basis in truth and only stand to divide us further.
We are 70% of the way to a total totalitarian nation. How much more do you need government to control for you?
Our Federal Government was established to deal with foreign policy, trade, sovereignty and our security. The States were left the rest.
Some how, the States lost all representation, when Senators where no longer appointed by the States and instead elected by the special interest.
In this age of media overload and sound bites, it seems that sadly many people:
(a) Need complex political discussions broken down in to such simplistic terms that the problem is no longer accurately represented.
and
(b) Cheer for their political party like a football team and instead of intelligent, thoughtful rejoinder offer "In your face...", "Not in a million Years", and other simplistic pejoratives as actual argument.
Have we become so stupid... so simplistic... as a nation that we need political discussions framed in an us versus them vernacular? Are we too lazy to look at the breadth a depth of a political, social or international issue and realize there is no singular solution (whether conservative or liberal) that will satisfy all?
The level of rhetoric on this forum is a complete embarrassment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanrene
Oh yes, how selective the memory of the Left. The rhetoric on this forum today pales in comparison to when Bush was in office.
You know, it's really too bad you didn't start such a thread back then, because doing so now really lends little credibility to the argument.
You reap what you have sown and the Left is reaping the bountiful harvest they sowed.
They really don't get it. Might want to ask themselves how is it that $4 TRILLION is not enough to satisfy all entitlements and obligations.
History shows that massive expansion and overspending of the obama kind prolongs depressions and cripples economies during recessions.
Taking money OUT of the private sector to give it to the federal government (a bloated, bureaucratic behemoth that is inefficient, wasteful and ineffective) is a sure fire way to destroying the economy.
Money will have to come out of every sector because we do not manufacture.
Have a listen to these economists (far left side of page under witness')
Committee on Ways & Means :: U.S. House of Representatives (http://waysandmeans.house.gov/hearings/hearingDetails.aspx?newsid=11201 - broken link)
To deny that our government isn't a business would be a step out of reality. Our business is service oriented therefore it's going to take money to make money. I've yet to find any credible economists that say we need to not spend to get out of this recession.
Oh yes, how selective the memory of the Left. The rhetoric on this forum today pales in comparison to when Bush was in office.
You know, it's really too bad you didn't start such a thread back then, because doing so now really lends little credibility to the argument.
You reap what you have sown and the Left is reaping the bountiful harvest they sowed.
Exhibit A.
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