Is Pittsburgh right for us? If so, where? (Ross Township, Shaler Township: real estate, new house)

[onwardandupward]

As others have said, our suburbs are not very diverse. For diversity, your best best is within the city; Squirrel Hill, Point Breeze, Highland Park, Regent Square. All of those areas are close to lovely parks, walking trails, and cultural amenities like museums, zoos, libraries, etc. In addition, your wife would be extremely close to most of the major hospitals in town. However, the housing stock in all of them is nowhere near new construction; the homes are most all 75-100 years old. My personal preference is for older solidly built homes (and there a lot of absolutely beautiful grand homes in the city) but that's an aside... To send your kids to publi school in the city needs careful monitoring; there are some very good magnet schools, some charter schools, and good elementary schools, but you need to be on top of things to get your kids into the right schools. Private schools are another option; there are some excellent private schools in the city.

On the suburban side, that's where you will find new construction, and more highly rated schools (other than the private schools). An "inner ring" suburb such as Mt. Lebanon, has excellent schools, but older homes. To get new construction, you have to move further out to Cranberry, Wexford, Peters Township. In those suburbs, you won't find much diversity. Your kids won't be the only non-white kids, but they will be in the small minority. Of course it's always possible to live in the suburbs but still involve your kids in activities in the city that will have a more diverse group of participants; chess clubs, track clubs, programs at the Carnegie or the Frick museums. From the suburbs, your wife will also have a longer commute to the major city hospitals, though there are some hospitals in the suburbs that she might consider.

Basically you'll have to decide what items are most important to you; living in a new home in the suburbs with excellent public schools without a lot of diversity, or living in the city with more diversity using either magnet schools or private schools, in an older home.

[onwardandupward]

Originally Posted by edoubleatl

Since we are considering suburbs, it does sound like we will have to consider that our son will be one of very few should we decide to make Pittsburgh our home. I guess the other question then is, are race relations positive in the suburbs? For instance, does the "one black family" or "one black kid" feel welcome?

I know a lot of families who moved to the suburbs solely because of the schools who WISH there was more diversity there, so I think you'll definitely be welcomed.

[BrianTH]

I don't think you will find a lot of race-based issues in the newer upscale suburbs you would be looking at (in fact I agree with a prior poster's implication that if anything for many people your family would be a welcome addition). So if you are willing to compromise on the actual percentages (and it is not like there are going to be no non-white professionals around, just a lower percentage than the baseline ratios in Allegheny County would suggest), then I think you would enjoy the choices (and prices) available in Pittsburgh. Generally speaking, I agree you will mostly likely find what you are describing in the newer North Hills suburbs.

[edoubleatl]

If the rapid and thorough responses that have been provided thus far are any indication of the camaraderie among residents, then Pittsburgh is definitely a place we will research further. Thanks very much.

It's clear from the thread that as the saying goes, "You can't have it all." Recognizing this, we will need to think through what's most important, and what compromises we are willing to make.

Originally Posted by Hopes

My question to you is would you like to live among your economic peers? Or would you like to live in a township that has a large mix of families from many economic backgrounds (working class, middle class, upper middle class). I can give you a list of the areas best school districts, but some of those school districts are surprisingly not our wealthiest townships. (North Hill's School District which serves Ross Township is one example.) But I think most people will tend to recommend that you live in Fox Chapel, Sewickley, etc.---wherever the old money is located since your wife is a doctor.

Give us a little more guidance into what you want from a township aside from good schools and we'll be able to give you a better answer. Good schools and safe neighborhoods go hand and hand in the metro area. What else do you want from your neighborhood?

This is a tough question. I think we have a better idea of what we don't want than what we do, but I will give it a shot. Our attraction to suburbs is really due to wanting low traffic/congestion, low crime, good schools, and a decent sized flat yard. If these things can be found in Pittsburgh without going all the way to the suburbs, we would be open to it.

1) A home with 1/2 an acre of land would be ideal. We could probably live with a 1/4 acre. We want enough space that our son (and other children we have or son's friends) can play at the home without the requirement of going to a park. However, being close enough to walk or ride a bike to a park would actually be pretty nice.

2) Homes with 3000+ square feet with basements would also be nice. We would be ok with older homes that have been refurbished on the inside. We are honestly not "fixer-upper" type people, but if the refurbishing has been done we would be open to it.

3) Economic similarity is not an absolute requirement. We actually value being around people who have the mindset of working hard, but may actually have different occupations and/or different income levels. Not knowing what is considered "middle" and "upper" class there means I'm not really sure where we would fall. The key is the mindset of the area - do people take care of their homes, their cars, follow laws, look out for each other, etc.

4) A walking intown neighborhood (as long as it's not on a major street, and not congested) would actually be pretty nice, as long as the above requirements are met.

5) Our current home in Atlanta surprisingly has a very nice view out of the back. Having a home that offered a nice view whether it be of the city, parks, treelines, etc, would be a big plus.

6) Good police/emergency response track records. With our focus on safety, I want to know we can get a cop/ambulance/fire engine when we need it.

There are probably more things, but this is a quick list right off the top of my head.

[Katarina Witt]

I'm not a big fan of these "best schools" websites, but I believe most of them also give demographic information.

[Renaldo5000]

Originally Posted by edoubleatl

I guess the other question then is, are race relations positive in the suburbs? For instance, does the "one black family" or "one black kid" feel welcome?

In the more well-to-do suburbs you will probably have no problem. In the more working-class suburbs you might get some stares and stand off-ishness.

Originally Posted by edoubleatl

For us, it's less about race, and more about a warm, accepting community.

Pittsburghers are a strange breed. They tend to be clannish and reserved. Practically nobody moves here which means that most everyone here is from Western Pennsylvania. It can be hard to break into social groups because everybody else has known each other for their entire lives. But, once you get to know a Pittsburgher they tend to be very warm and friendly.

Originally Posted by edoubleatl

By the way, what is the situation with Woodland Hills? I could tell you were ribbing each other, but wasn't sure what the underlying story was all about.

Crappy school district that has gone downhill. You do not want to send your child there.

[Renaldo5000]

Originally Posted by edoubleatl

Our attraction to suburbs is really due to wanting low traffic/congestion, low crime, good schools, and a decent sized flat yard.

A lot of the newer suburbs in the metro area have a decent amount of congestion unfortunately. I'm mainly thinking of Cranberry/Wexford, Murrysville, and spots in North Hills. Although, I might add that Pittsburgh's "congestion" is a lot less horrid than Atlanta's. But, if you live in South Hills or North Hills and you drive to the city every morning during rush hour then you are going to do some sitting. It's like that in every city. Also, the "hot" newer suburbs (Cranberry/Wexford) are actually kind of far away from the city in my opinion (about 20-30 minutes).

Originally Posted by edoubleatl

3) Economic similarity is not an absolute requirement. We actually value being around people who have the mindset of working hard, but may actually have different occupations and/or different income levels. Not knowing what is considered "middle" and "upper" class there means I'm not really sure where we would fall. The key is the mindset of the area - do people take care of their homes, their cars, follow laws, look out for each other, etc.

There are lots of middle-class and up neighborhoods that are safe and where people act in a respectful manner. However, I fear that if you moved into one of the working-class suburbs that you would be mildly ostracized because those people tend to stay in their towns forever and everybody would be white. Also, I'll be honest with you, I don't really see much "community" out in the suburbs. It just seems to be people who work a lot, have several kids, and watch TV at night. But, maybe I'm missing something...?

Originally Posted by edoubleatl

1) A home with 1/2 an acre of land would be ideal. We could probably live with a 1/4 acre. We want enough space that our son (and other children we have or son's friends) can play at the home without the requirement of going to a park. However, being close enough to walk or ride a bike to a park would actually be pretty nice.

4) A walking intown neighborhood (as long as it's not on a major street, and not congested) would actually be pretty nice, as long as the above requirements are met.

That's a rough one. Like I said before, most of the outlying suburbs are rural-ish with big-box stores nearby. There aren't a lot of places with nice walkable neighborhoods. The only ones I can think of are Sewickley, Mt. Lebanon, and Aspinwall.

Originally Posted by edoubleatl

6) Good police/emergency response track records. With our focus on safety, I want to know we can get a cop/ambulance/fire engine when we need it.

I have never heard any complaints about the outlying municipalities in reagrds to emergency response. In fact, the only thing I hear is how the cops out there are so bored that they try to bust people for everything.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by edoubleatl

This is a tough question. I think we have a better idea of what we don't want than what we do, but I will give it a shot. Our attraction to suburbs is really due to wanting low traffic/congestion, low crime, good schools, and a decent sized flat yard. If these things can be found in Pittsburgh without going all the way to the suburbs, we would be open to it.

1) A home with 1/2 an acre of land would be ideal. We could probably live with a 1/4 acre. We want enough space that our son (and other children we have or son's friends) can play at the home without the requirement of going to a park. However, being close enough to walk or ride a bike to a park would actually be pretty nice.

2) Homes with 3000+ square feet with basements would also be nice. We would be ok with older homes that have been refurbished on the inside. We are honestly not "fixer-upper" type people, but if the refurbishing has been done we would be open to it.

You can have those things in the city if you can afford it. There are many large homes in Squirrel Hill with huge yards. You're talking in the high hundred thousands, near one million dollar homes. Since you're coming from Atlanta, you might not consider that expensive. Just keep in mind that property taxes tend to be high in Allegheny County, and local income taxes are higher within the city limits than they are in the surrounding suburbs. Furthermore, you'd probably chose private schools. Those run near 20k for high school grades (just an estimate off the top of my head. Can't remember the tuitions at the moment).

Originally Posted by edoubleatl

3) Economic similarity is not an absolute requirement. We actually value being around people who have the mindset of working hard, but may actually have different occupations and/or different income levels. Not knowing what is considered "middle" and "upper" class there means I'm not really sure where we would fall. The key is the mindset of the area - do people take care of their homes, their cars, follow laws, look out for each other, etc.

Pittsburghers tend to look out for their neighbors. I can't think of a middle class suburb where people don't take care of their homes, cars and follow laws. Granted, when you live in an economically diverse area, a good percentage of people will be driving cars that are decades old---and some might not be maintained very well due to lack of money. The difference in these types of townships is that few people judge others by their economic means. I'm not pushing these suburbs. I just thought I would ask if you want to live among your economic peers or if you wanted to live in an economically diverse township. North Hills School District ranks among the best in the county, but it's not really an area of great weath. If you want to live among your peers, you're looking at Fox Chapel and Swickley and Squirrel Hill. If you want to live in an area that has some of your peers and the rest mostly upper middle class, you should looke Hampton, McCandless, Pine, Bradford Woods, Franklin Park, Wexford, Cranberry, etc.

Originally Posted by edoubleatl

4) A walking intown neighborhood (as long as it's not on a major street, and not congested) would actually be pretty nice, as long as the above requirements are met.

You might want to consider Oakmont. If you chose Oakmont, you might prefer a private school. The school district isn't terrible, but it's not one that is considered the best. But it's outside of the city so the local income taxes wouldn't be as high---only 1%. It's an adorable little town with lots of restaurants and shops. It's rather diverse economically too. There's wealth there, but some affordable housing too. There are larger homes with big yards on the outskirts, but you could still easily walk into town.

Originally Posted by edoubleatl

6) Good police/emergency response track records. With our focus on safety, I want to know we can get a cop/ambulance/fire engine when we need it.

That won't be a problem anywhere in the greater Pittsburgh metro area. Our police and emergency services are very good.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by iwonderwhy2124

Pittsburghers are a strange breed. They tend to be clannish and reserved. Practically nobody moves here which means that most everyone here is from Western Pennsylvania. It can be hard to break into social groups because everybody else has known each other for their entire lives. But, once you get to know a Pittsburgher they tend to be very warm and friendly.

I hope the OP takes your negative opinion of Pittsburghers with a grain of salt. I'm a firm believer that people contribute to their experiences. The people who have problems here seem to have a difficult time because they are negative people.

Originally Posted by iwonderwhy2124

There are lots of middle-class and up neighborhoods that are safe and where people act in a respectful manner. However, I fear that if you moved into one of the working-class suburbs that you would be mildly ostracized because those people tend to stay in their towns forever and everybody would be white. Also, I'll be honest with you, I don't really see much "community" out in the suburbs. It just seems to be people who work a lot, have several kids, and watch TV at night. But, maybe I'm missing something...?

If you don't know much about suburban life, you shouldn't comment on it one way or another. Pittsburgh's suburbs have residents who embrace community. And the working and middle classes in the suburbs aren't racists. You really have no idea what you're talking about in regards to this specific issue.

Originally Posted by iwonderwhy2124

That's a rough one. Like I said before, most of the outlying suburbs are rural-ish with big-box stores nearby.

Agreed. I think that's a good description of Cranberry. But it is an area that does have the newer housing developments.

Originally Posted by iwonderwhy2124

There aren't a lot of places with nice walkable neighborhoods. The only ones I can think of are Sewickley, Mt. Lebanon, and Aspinwall.

1/2 an acre will be hard to find in Aspinwall, perhaps Mt. Lebo too.

Originally Posted by iwonderwhy2124

I have never heard any complaints about the outlying municipalities in reagrds to emergency response. In fact, the only thing I hear is how the cops out there are so bored that they try to bust people for everything.

That's true. It's also one of the main reasons I'm against consolidating our public services and switching to a county government. I like the services I have in the suburbs. I woudn't want services taken away from my area to be allocated to areas with limited financial resources. Instead, I'd rather support those areas through additional taxes, not via our literal resources.

[Drover]

I'm thinking if you're looking for homes in the 3000+ sqft range on 1/4 to 1/2 acre lot, economic similarity is going to be inevitable as places like this are out of reach of about 90% of the population.