Downtown Population increased 25% since 2000 (Pittsburgh, Oliver: for rent, to buy, universities)

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by pman

more downtown residents will probably translate into very little improvement in PAT ridership...increases in downtown nightlife and offpeak offerings on the other hand could well put butts in empty seats.

Exactly--just spreading out the evening commute would help PAT's efficiency. That said, according to the survey, 46% of Downtown residents use the bus, 35% the T (these are non-exclusive). That's not bad at all.

I wasn't concerned with displacement just the loss of jobs that report identified. it's possible it was recession related but downtown needs to hang on to the jobs it has (in number anyway, not necessarily the exact jobs) and add residents.

Agreed--the jobs density remains important. Given that the 2010 numbers are higher than the 1996 numbers, and looking at which industries lost jobs, I do think the recession is mostly to blame for the fact the 2010 numbers are lower than the 2006 numbers. It also appears the North Shore and Strip "stole" some employees, which is OK given the broader vision I sketched above. All that said, more new Class A office space Downtown would probably be a good idea.

overall I think that 30-40 is attainable but first you have to get to 20k...I think goals are best when ambitions but attainable. it would have to be a downtown partnership goal as political entities rarely have ambitious goals IMO..at least publicly.

I see it as a matter of timeframe: 20K in 10-15 years, 30-40K in another 10-15 after that, seems attainable to me.

[pman]

i suppose youre right about pat...one would.guess the oakland corridor is a large driver in that uptick. id guess the impact on routes to the suburbs is minimal

[SteelCityRising]

Personally I would love to live Downtown, but as of right now everything offered is uber-expensive. I live in Polish Hill (within walking distance of Downtown) and pay $550/month for a very nice place that I plan to renew my lease upon in October. I can't justify paying twice as much (or more) for the "convenience" of living Downtown when I can move just across a bridge or just up the street and pay a fraction of that. If I want to see the city skyline I can walk three minutes down the street and snap a picture from the 28th Street Bridge or drive 10 minutes to Grandview in Mt. Washington.

Metro DC irked me because I was living 20 miles outside the city and was STILL paying an arm and a leg for rent. Here in Pittsburgh you can move just a mile (or less) from the heart of the city and pay peanuts. Downtown needs a greater DIVERSITY in rentals first before it can truly stage a serious comeback.

[Blackbeauty212]

Sorry Reston - no ones going to put apts downtown for 550$ not when they can command much more of return because of demand....the cheapest to find downtown would probably 700 750 and thats for studios or efficencies @ best one br look more for 850 900$ on the cheapside

[Denton56]

>>>Downtown needs a greater DIVERSITY in rentals first before it can truly stage a serious comeback.<<<
What does that mean? More low income rentals? More high end rentals? More rentals to Blacks and other races? If there's a market, they will come.

[Denton56]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

Sorry Reston - no ones going to put apts downtown for 550$ not when they can command much more of return because of demand....the cheapest to find downtown would probably 700 750 and thats for studios or efficencies @ best one br look more for 850 900$ on the cheapside

Oh my, sounds like that pesky economic reality stuff, supply and demand and all that stuff! Location, location, location! "Someone" should do something to change that pesky reality!

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by pman

id guess the impact on routes to the suburbs is minimal

I'd guess you were right (well, maybe except to the airport, which doesn't really count).

Edit: Oh, and in response to the other line of discussion above . . . Downtown is pretty darn affordable for what it is, and likely is only going to get more expensive as it adds people. The fact is that any place in Downtown is within a short walk of tens of thousands of high-paying jobs, and the more desirable it becomes as a place to live as well, the more upscale it will go. Fortunately students will help "diversify" the Downtown income mix a bit, but market-rate apartment rents are likely heading higher.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by Denton56

>>>Downtown needs a greater DIVERSITY in rentals first before it can truly stage a serious comeback.<<<
What does that mean? More low income rentals? More high end rentals? More rentals to Blacks and other races? If there's a market, they will come.

Originally Posted by Denton56

Oh my, sounds like that pesky economic reality stuff, supply and demand and all that stuff! Location, location, location! "Someone" should do something to change that pesky reality!

Right now what does Downtown offer that would justify someone paying 100%-200% more than they would pay for a comparably-appointed apartment in another neighborhood within an easy walk of Downtown? That is what I'm saying here. I'm going to stay put in Polish Hill in my upscale loft for $550/month. To put things into perspective for those of you in NoVA this would be like 1-BR rents in Rosslyn going for $2,000/month while 1-BR rents in Ballston (walking distance) would be going for $800/month. Who would pay an additional $1,200/month to save a 25-minute walk (and why?)

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by RestonRunner86

Who would pay an additional $1,200/month to save a 25-minute walk (and why?)

People who value their time enough. Plus you are also closer to a lot more other stuff (restaurants, theaters, and so on).

Don't get me wrong . . . I'm not saying you personally are making a mistake by living in Polish Hill. But this is sort of like arguing that luxury cars aren't worth the extra money in terms of basic transportation, or that expensive wines aren't better at quenching your thirst, and so on. All that is true, but people with money are going to spend some of that money on luxuries, and having an apartment that is 5 minutes instead of 30 minutes from your office (plus a bunch of other stuff) isn't the most irrational luxury around.

[pman]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I'd guess you were right (well, maybe except to the airport, which doesn't really count).

Edit: Oh, and in response to the other line of discussion above . . . Downtown is pretty darn affordable for what it is, and likely is only going to get more expensive as it adds people. The fact is that any place in Downtown is within a short walk of tens of thousands of high-paying jobs, and the more desirable it becomes as a place to live as well, the more upscale it will go. Fortunately students will help "diversify" the Downtown income mix a bit, but market-rate apartment rents are likely heading higher.

as long as the rents are high enough to justify the cost I don't know that they have to keep going higher as there's plenty of room to expand supply..of course, we'r talking averages here. there's no reason there can't be very high end places that set city records and "affordable luxury" at $1200-1400/mo..in fact, it's going to take both to meet the goals we've set for the city.