Scottsdale V Austin (Phoenix, Mesa, Glendale: transplants, gated, salaries)

[tcd IL]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

People don't understand the appeal of Austin. Aside from Austin, most Texans live in either one of three metros: Dallas, Houston and San Antonio. Those three cities are conservative, southern and flat in terms of geography. They are very similar. Austin stands out. And in terms of the South, Austin is their prized gem of a "west coast" feeling city in the South. So in that context, Austin became very popular.

Now, if you take someone who is not from Texas and is from the West Coast region (including Arizona and Nevada), Austin is nice but nothing special. Austin has banners : "Keep Austin weird" Well there is nothing weird about it other than it's different than the rest of Texas but what is "weird" for Austin is normal for any city in the West. It's reputation is largely built on it's comparison to other Texas cities and cities in the South in general.

And it's funny because Texans love to boast about Austin like their weird little baby brother who is dfferent than the other siblings. Yeah, it's weird for Texas, that's about it.

So agree with this. Also, its odd, there is no city in the USA that has more local 'boosterism' than Austin. They must have you take a test/course/creed when you move there to extol its virtues to all outsiders.

Its an ok place, but I've never caught the 'fever' many have there.

[take57]

At the risk of pointing out the elephant in the room, it would be remiss if it wasn't mentioned that a substantial difference between Scottsdale and Austin is Scottsdale is largely and robustly conservative and Austin.... ahhhh... isn't.

[dvxhd]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

People don't understand the appeal of Austin. Aside from Austin, most Texans live in either one of three metros: Dallas, Houston and San Antonio. Those three cities are conservative, southern and flat in terms of geography. They are very similar. Austin stands out. And in terms of the South, Austin is their prized gem of a "west coast" feeling city in the South. So in that context, Austin became very popular.

That's not entirely accurate. In 2012, the majority of Maricopa County voted Republican, whereas the Counties of Dallas, Harris (Houston) and Bexar (San Antonio), as well as Travis (Austin) voted predominantly to the left. I would possibly call Houston conservative, but not the other cities. I wouldn't use the "West Coast" feeling to describe Austin either, but rather a place that embraces youth culture more than other areas in Texas. That's more likely how it became popular with younger people and continues to attract that demographic, whereas Maricopa County has established a more conservative, "low cost of living" image that generally attracts more conservative, less educated, lower-skilled people. There are of course exceptions, but that's the image Phoenix puts out there... and to the OP in particular, the Irish Department of Foreign Affairs specifically mentioned Arizona in travel advice:

https://www.dfa.ie/travel/travel-adv...es-of-america/

Some States (Arizona, Utah, Indiana, South Carolina, Georgia and Alabama) introduced legislation designed to identify and reduce the number of illegal immigrants in their states. These measures include authorisation for police officers to detain people they suspect of being in the US illegally. Although some of the measures are being contested in the courts, it is important that you have your documents available for scrutiny if you’re asked by law enforcement officials to present them wherever you are in the United States.

Regardless, the Phoenix area is naturally more scenic and there are more opportunities for outdoor activities in the surrounding areas, but Austin has fairly mild winters. I'm surprised the OP doesn't consider more places in the Sun Belt, because choosing between Phoenix and Austin seems limiting.

[BIG CATS]

Originally Posted by dvxhd

Maricopa County has established a more conservative, "low cost of living" image that generally attracts more conservative, less educated, lower-skilled people.

I would disagree to some extent. Most of the lower-skilled work here in Maricopa County is done by Hispanics, who are staunchly left-leaning. Successful cities in the Valley (ie Scottsdale, Chandler, Carefree, FH, etc) are conservative, and more white-collar. Tempe would be a good example of a rather successful city that is more left-leaning, but not entirely so. Most of the less-educated, lower-skilled people (as you put it) hail from cities that are blue, not left (Mesa, El Mirage, Phoenix, etc). There are small enclaves of red cities (ie AJ) that are lower-skilled, though.

[dvxhd]

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

I would disagree to some extent. Most of the lower-skilled work here in Maricopa County is done by Hispanics, who are staunchly left-leaning. Successful cities in the Valley (ie Scottsdale, Chandler, Carefree, FH, etc) are conservative, and more white-collar. Tempe would be a good example of a rather successful city that is more left-leaning, but not entirely so. Most of the less-educated, lower-skilled people (as you put it) hail from cities that are blue, not left (Mesa, El Mirage, Phoenix, etc). There are small enclaves of red cities (ie AJ) that are lower-skilled, though.

Ah, straw man argument. Let's get back to the point: they may come from blue states, but the people moving here vote typically vote red. That lower skilled bit is false too. I went to the gym and grocery store this morning, both of which had mostly white employees. Do you consider working reception for a gym or ringing up groceries to be high-skill, white-collar work? Furthermore, the Phoenix area ranks very low in college degree attainment. According to this, it's at a lofty 66th place, between Detroit and Wichita:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...tro-areas.html

On top of that, Mesa is by far one of the most conservative cities in the Valley. Why would you consider that town to be leftist?

[i'm not a cookie]

I like Scottsdale a lot more, having said that I might choose Austin if I were you though. I think that the culture in Austin is much more classic American if you will...and if that's what you are in search for then Austin is the place for you. It really all comes down to what you are interested in...nightlife? Nature? Weekend trips?
Some pros about living in Scottsdale:
-Very very family friendly
- Great outdoor activities i.e. there are a lot of great golf courses and huge resort pools.
- 3 hour drive from Grand Canyon
- five and a half hour drive to LA and San Diego.
- It's right next to Phoenix, which is the sixth largest city in the country so that means you will have access to great restaurants, pro sports teams, amazing shopping, restaurants, and museums.
- The weather will be absolutely amazing during the months that you will be in Scottsdale (plus it's not humid like Austin)
- Plenty of Mountains that you can hike, plenty of lakes that you can swim in, and if you like sunsets there is nothing in this world like an Arizona sunset.

[Hschlick84]

OP, have you considered looking into Albuquerque or Santa Fe?

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Hschlick84

OP, have you considered looking into Albuquerque or Santa Fe?

They seem to be looking for mild weather, no snow. I don't think either one of those fit the bill but beautiful areas nonetheless.

[Bert_from_back_East]

If you're only going to be spending September - May in whichever locale you choose, then pick Scottsdale. As another poster mentioned up-thread, Austin has noticeably colder, wetter, drearier winters by comparison.

Also, Austin is probably one the worst places to live in the entire country for seasonal allergies due it's location at the crossroads of forests to the east, deserts to the west and south and high plains to the north. Only Dallas is probably worse in this regard.

Also, Austin is not nearly as well-coiffed as Scottsdale, IMO, and it sounds like that's important to you (it's important to me, too). Scottsdale is probably the most perfect-looking city in America, ranking among the likes of Irvine, CA and Boca Raton, FL.

Finally, the scenery of Austin is just lovely, but TX as a whole is a rather unimpressive state from a standpoint of natural beauty, which is especially surprising given the state's enormous land area. AZ, OTOH, has some of the most dramatic and breathtaking scenery in all of the land, and the endless outdoor recreational opportunities that exist in a relatively short drive from Scottsdale certainly reflect that.

Scottsdale, FTW.

PS - Be sure to invest in lots and lots of sunscreen if you move to Scottsdale, though. I'm only a quarter Irish (three quarters central Italian), and I still burn like a witch on the cross in the hot desert sun! LOL.

Best of luck to you and your family.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by dvxhd

Maricopa County has established a more conservative, "low cost of living" image that generally attracts more conservative, less educated, lower-skilled people. There are of course exceptions.

Where are you finding data that supports Maricopa County is 1. lost cost of living and 2. lower-skilled people?

According to the cost of living calculators, were actually hair above US average: https://www.google.com/search?q=cost...utf-8&oe=utf-8

According to the skill attainment ranking of people in the Phoenix metro, we also have a slightly higher than US average bachelors degree attainment %.

Most Educated Cities in 2016

Phoenix comes in at 18.6% while the US average is 18.3%. While at the Masters level we are a hair the US average at 10.3% versus 11%. We actually rank higher than Houston and a bit lower than Dallas on the attainment ranking.

As you mentioned there are exceptions, this is after all a valley of nearly 5Million people, much much larger than Austin. Tempe, I believe, is one of the top educated cities in the valley and claims a 40% attainment which seems to be along the lines of Austin.