Is Philadelphia a Rust Belt City? (Pittsburgh, Allentown: mattresses, appliances, loan)

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

LMAO...Boy, Bye! Philadelphia also seems to have the market cornered on clueless people.

You used "stats" that were 4 years old....lol

[BPP1999]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

Actually Allegheny County send more Taxes dollars to Harrisburg than Philadelphia County does. Philadelphia suck more off the Harrisburg teet than any County in Pennsylvania. Only Mont-Co send more Tax Dollars to Harrisburg than Allegheny.

And Allegheny doesn't even get all back what it put into the pot. I have no doubt a lot of those tax dollars find their way over to SEPA side of the state. The City of Philadelphia is a huge black hole of State Tax Dollars.

If you Philly Boosters are at all honest with yourselves. Philly is the Poorest and the most Welfare'd city in the state.

Sources:

http://pennbpc.org/pdf/PBPC_Tax_Primer_08.pdf

When it comes to education funding, what's the deal with Philly schools?

Your first article - the Tax Primer - mentions the word "Philadelphia" four times. Two of those times are in regards to the fact that Philadelphia and Allegheny Counties have local sales taxes, which has nothing to do with your claim that Philly is "welfare'd" in the state. The other two times "Philadelphia" is mentioned also do not say anything about being "welfare'd" so you either posted that article to make it look like it's relevant (my guess) or because you can't read your own sources.

Your second article - about city schools - mentions that Philadelphia has 12% of of the state's school-age children but receives 18% of the state subsidies. OK, but don't we need to consider the tax receipts generated by Philadelphia County before we claim this is unfair?

Your third article - about Allegheny Transit - tells me what I already knew, and what I already mentioned a couple years ago in my post from 11:06 AM above - that the Philadelphia and Pittsburgh regions get screwed by the rural legislators of this state. These regions send more to Harrisburg than they get back.

I really wish you'd stop screaming about stuff that you are unsure of. Please review the link on my 11:06AM above, then tell me again which part of the state is subsidizing who. The general findings are that Metro Philly generates more than its share of tax revenues, but the excess is not as huge as some might think. I calculated a rough excess of about $700M, based on total Philadelphia area revenues compared to total Philadelphia area population/total PA population. Philadelphia's four suburban counties (Montgomery and Chester, especially) are subsidizing Philadelphia's shortfall, then the rest of the state. So let the beef against Philadelphia be from its four suburban counties. For the record these four counties, and I live in one of them, would not be nearly as wealthy or educated had Philadelphia not been there to begin with, so any argument from suburban residents against the local city is invalidated IMO.

[Pine to Vine]

^^^Repped. Only issue with your post is that you expect a rational response to your request:

Originally Posted by BPP1999

I really wish you'd stop screaming about stuff that you are unsure of. Please review the link on my 11:06AM above, then tell me again which part of the state is subsidizing who.

[Blackbeauty212]

Originally Posted by BPP1999

Your first article - the Tax Primer - mentions the word "Philadelphia" four times. Two of those times are in regards to the fact that Philadelphia and Allegheny Counties have local sales taxes, which has nothing to do with your claim that Philly is "welfare'd" in the state. The other two times "Philadelphia" is mentioned also do not say anything about being "welfare'd" so you either posted that article to make it look like it's relevant (my guess) or because you can't read your own sources.

Your second article - about city schools - mentions that Philadelphia has 12% of of the state's school-age children but receives 18% of the state subsidies. OK, but don't we need to consider the tax receipts generated by Philadelphia County before we claim this is unfair?

Your third article - about Allegheny Transit - tells me what I already knew, and what I already mentioned a couple years ago in my post from 11:06 AM above - that the Philadelphia and Pittsburgh regions get screwed by the rural legislators of this state. These regions send more to Harrisburg than they get back.

I really wish you'd stop screaming about stuff that you are unsure of. Please review the link on my 11:06AM above, then tell me again which part of the state is subsidizing who. The general findings are that Metro Philly generates more than its share of tax revenues, but the excess is not as huge as some might think. I calculated a rough excess of about $700M, based on total Philadelphia area revenues compared to total Philadelphia area population/total PA population. Philadelphia's four suburban counties (Montgomery and Chester, especially) are subsidizing Philadelphia's shortfall, then the rest of the state. So let the beef against Philadelphia be from its four suburban counties. For the record these four counties, and I live in one of them, would not be nearly as wealthy or educated had Philadelphia not been there to begin with, so any argument from suburban residents against the local city is invalidated IMO.

But you're trying to pass of what the Collar Counties produce in tax revenue to Prop up Philadelphia itself. That like Butler, Westmoreland, Washington, and Beaver counties out producing Allegheny/Pittsburgh, yet I use it to make Pittsburgh itself seem more prosperous than what it really produces, that's disingenuous and a fallacy.

SEPA subsidizes Philadelphia ... Allegheny County sends more tax dollars to Harrisburg than it gets in return. Some of those dollars probably go to Philadelphia. The City of Philadelphia is a HUGE ANCHOR / Black Hole / Welfare Recipient of Pennsylvania Tax Dollars. It pulls in more than it dishes out.

I even showed you City vs City, Philadelphia is NOT as prosperous as Pittsburgh based on incomes. Philadelphia has all of the same problems as Former Rust Belts. It is not some NY-SF-DC esque producer of Great Wealth. It's Economy is NOT Robust and Bustling its average at best if you include the Collar Counties. Its downright Pitiful if you look at the city alone.

You Philly Boosters need to quit trying to pass Philadelphia off as something its NOT! Philadelphia is former Northeastern Rust Belt, with having still very many of the same problems that plague other Rust Belts. I wouldn't go as far as to say its "FULLY" recovered, its still in Recovering Mode, like Pittsburgh.

[BPP1999]

Originally Posted by Pine to Vine

^^^Repped. Only issue with your post is that you expect a rational response to your request:

Thank you. I like to believe that I think with my brain, unlike some.

Here is some further summary from my post:


4 taxes - realty transfer, inheritance, vehicle, and sales (state portion only):

Metro Philadelphia generates 33.5% of total state revenues of these four taxes with 31.7% of the state population.

Metro Pittsburgh generates 20.5% of total state revenues of these four taxes with 18.4% of the state population.



Personal income tax - ignoring tax forgiveness:

Metro Philadelphia generates 38% of total state revenues of these four taxes with 31.7% of the state population (disparity largely thanks to Montgomery and Chester Counties, I might add, plus all the well-paying Center City jobs).

Metro Pittsburgh generates 19.5% of total state revenues of these four taxes with 18.4% of the state population.



Findings: Philadelphia and Pittsburgh are subsidizing the rest of the state (duh). Instead of fighting, the regions should work together for a bigger share of state funding.

[Duderino]

Any argument, to any effect, that the Philadelphia somehow is an economic leech and a drain on Pennsylvania, in 2016, is laughably inaccurate and 100% backwards.

I don't like to pile on, but it's actually quite sad and depressing how much the Philadelphia region is now "carrying" Pennsylvania economically. Based on the most recent September 2016 jobs numbers, I'd estimate at least 90% of the jobs created in the past year in Pennsylvania are based in the Philadelphia region, whereas the Philadelphia area only contains under 40% of Pennsylvania's population: Monthly News Releases

Pittsburgh is notably showing great growth in a really lucrative few sectors, but unfortunately, this is not enough to create a prevailing trend.

Frankly, as much as I love and try to look for positives about the entirety of PA, the economy is quite an embarrassment for the rest of the state outside of the Southeast. Especially for a state that has such wonderful assets in every corner, there's little excuse as to why other areas of the state should be seeing such lackluster numbers. Rural Pennsylvania, and smaller metros, really need to get their act together.

[BPP1999]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

SEPA subsidizes Philadelphia ... Allegheny County sends more tax dollars to Harrisburg than it gets in return. Some of those dollars probably go to Philadelphia. The City of Philadelphia is a HUGE ANCHOR / Black Hole / Welfare Recipient of Pennsylvania Tax Dollars. It pulls in more than it dishes out.

Because a large portion of the wealth moved to the 'burbs. This is why the following disparity is so high: Personal income tax - ignoring tax forgiveness: Metro Philadelphia generates 38% of total state revenues of these four taxes with 31.7% of the state population (disparity largely thanks to Montgomery and Chester Counties, I might add, plus all the well-paying Center City jobs). To put that into a dollar figure that we can all understand, total state revenues from personal income taxes were $9,282,000,000. The 6.3% disparity above represents just over $575,000,000. That's not chopped liver, my good friend.

[Blackbeauty212]

Originally Posted by Duderino

Any argument, to any effect, that the Philadelphia somehow is an economic leech and a drain on Pennsylvania, in 2016, is laughably inaccurate and 100% backwards.

I don't like to pile on, but it's actually quite sad and actually depressing how much the Philadelphia region is now "carrying" Pennsylvania economically. Based on the most recent September 2016 jobs numbers, I'd estimate at least 90% of the jobs created in the past year in Pennsylvania are based in the Philadelphia region, whereas the Philadelphia area only contains under 40% of Pennsylvania's population: Monthly News Releases

Pittsburgh is notably showing great growth in a really lucrative few sectors, but unfortunately, this is not enough to create a prevailing trend.

Frankly, as much as I love and try to look for positives about the entirety of PA, the economy is quite an embarrassment for the rest of the state outside of the Southeast. Especially for a state that has such wonderful assets in every corner, there's little excuse as to why other areas of the state should be seeing such lackluster numbers. Rural Pennsylvania, and smaller metros, really need to get their act together.

Philadelphia is carried by its Suburban Counties, Pittsburgh/Allegheny carries its suburban counties. That's the difference, you simply cannot argue with that. Philadelphia Metro and Philadelphia city are two different things.

[cpomp]

Why doesn't SEPA just make its own state? then we can be happy and watch the rest of former Pennsylvania rot.. sorry Pittsburgh

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

Philadelphia is carried by its Suburban Counties, Pittsburgh/Allegheny carries its suburban counties. That's the difference, you simply cannot argue with that. Philadelphia Metro and Philadelphia city are two different things.

Reference the numbers I linked to. In the past year, jobs in the City of Philadelphia grew over 2.0%, which is more than double the statewide average, and in-line with the suburbs.

Contrary to your argument, job growth in the Philly area is now consistent across the board.