Income and rent map - accurate for Philadelphia? (Levittown, Chester: apartment, houses)

[Cnote11]

My zip code is 19103! Don't forget to figure in my income into that

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by HeavenWood

Obviously the sprawl you're referring to is in a different class from Levittown, but your assumption that it will forever remain upscale is not necessarily a safe one. Overbrook, Wynnefield, and Oak Lane, while not among the City's worst neighborhoods, have definitely fallen a staggering amount from their heyday. I don't think outer Delaware/Chester Counties are ever going to become ghettos, but they could very well lose their luster over the years. The biggest problem with sprawl is that the "sprawl mentality" associated with it leads people to pick up and move out to the next shiny new suburb if/when they can afford it. I'm not referring to the extreme high-end custom estates so much as the Toll Brothers-style developments that are interspersed between them.

Those are very different neighborhoods though. I dont like to say things are built for failure because that was not the intention, but look at these neighborhoods, and Chester(Chester is way worse I know) but twins and rowhouse and a lot of smaller homes, brookhaven is another example. They are obviously at some point going to struggle because they now attract lower income people. Even a few streets in Media have trouble because those types of homes attract a lower income level.

A toll brothers neighborhood whether you think it is tacky or not will never be like that because first, toll builds in wealthy suburbs that will always be wealthy because they are not close to any bad areas. And second, because they are 5000 sqft homes. The only streets of Chester that look presentable are the ones near Widener where there are a lot of large colonials, even in Chester, so that is really a not accurate to say towns like Garnet Valley and Glen Mills will lose their luster, because they wont. Towns like brookhaven and Chester were never wealthy, always solid middle/working class. At least in our area, builders dont build working class neighborhoods, they always build upscale, another scenario showing that times have changed.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by cpomp

Those are very different neighborhoods though. I dont like to say things are built for failure because that was not the intention, but look at these neighborhoods, and Chester(Chester is way worse I know) but twins and rowhouse and a lot of smaller homes, brookhaven is another example. They are obviously at some point going to struggle because they now attract lower income people. Even a few streets in Media have trouble because those types of homes attract a lower income level.

A toll brothers neighborhood whether you think it is tacky or not will never be like that because first, toll builds in wealthy suburbs that will always be wealthy because they are not close to any bad areas. And second, because they are 5000 sqft homes. The only streets of Chester that look presentable are the ones near Widener where there are a lot of large colonials, even in Chester, so that is really a not accurate to say towns like Garnet Valley and Glen Mills will lose their luster, because they wont. Towns like brookhaven and Chester were never wealthy, always solid middle/working class. At least in our area, builders dont build working class neighborhoods, they always build upscale, another scenario showing that times have changed.

But those neighborhoods have huge houses that were subdivided into apartments... or simply allowed to fall into disrepair.

You really can't assume a place is a "wealthy neighborhood that will always be wealthy." Toll Brothers construction is crap. I could easily see some of their developments going downhill in the years to come. If people stop by-and-large liking auto-centric areas far from the city, it stands to reason that Garnet Valley and the like will decline at least in part.

[rotodome]

Originally Posted by cpomp

Those are very different neighborhoods though. I dont like to say things are built for failure because that was not the intention, but look at these neighborhoods, and Chester(Chester is way worse I know) but twins and rowhouse and a lot of smaller homes, brookhaven is another example. They are obviously at some point going to struggle because they now attract lower income people. Even a few streets in Media have trouble because those types of homes attract a lower income level.

A toll brothers neighborhood whether you think it is tacky or not will never be like that because first, toll builds in wealthy suburbs that will always be wealthy because they are not close to any bad areas. And second, because they are 5000 sqft homes. The only streets of Chester that look presentable are the ones near Widener where there are a lot of large colonials, even in Chester, so that is really a not accurate to say towns like Garnet Valley and Glen Mills will lose their luster, because they wont. Towns like brookhaven and Chester were never wealthy, always solid middle/working class. At least in our area, builders dont build working class neighborhoods, they always build upscale, another scenario showing that times have changed.

A balloon frame Toll Brothers neighborhood probably won't remain standing for all that long, so, possibly a moot point!

[RightonWalnut]

Originally Posted by HeavenWood

^What %age earn over $250k though? The high average indicates a skew, but you don't really know to what extent unless you see the full distribution.

Edit: I can check later.

Yes. Please check for me, I couldn't find it.

Thanks

[frankgn87]

Originally Posted by Summersm343

The littlest things can skew those statistics in the wrong way. High concentrations of students? Young professionals? Renters? Retirees? You don't get it. Are you saying Rittenhouse Square is not an extremely wealthy area? Ya know, all the multi-million dollar listings, Maserati's, McClaren's and Aston Martin's I see parked next to Rittenhouse Square on a daily basis say different. Yet the map only puts the average income at ~$70k. Those are the renters and students bringing down the average income. Good luck affording a multi-million dollar condo or rowhome on that income. In some suburbs, there are very few rental options, there are no students, etc. etc. etc. All there is are large mansions and mcmansions and nothing to skew the statistics. I can't believe how unbelievably difficult it is for you to apply your brain, and you work in education somewhere, which is even scarier.

Because you know, this isn't wealthy at all, this is what average income of $70k looks like
Rittenhouse Square Real Estate & Rittenhouse Square Homes For Sale — Trulia.com

You have no idea what you are talking about Frank. That is why I said before, it is much more effective to look at average homes prices in an area, it will give you a better idea on the wealth of an area because it removes students, renters and other outliers that can skew statistics.

Right over you head.. As usual. Facts are facts my friend no matter hard it is for you to accept. Like I said, there are million dollar homes in CC but it pales in comparison to the burbs my friend. As hard as that is for you to understand.

[RightonWalnut]

Originally Posted by frankgn87

Right over you head.. As usual. Facts are facts my friend no matter hard it is for you to accept. Like I said, there are million dollar homes in CC but it pales in comparison to the burbs my friend. As hard as that is for you to understand.

Frank. Are you saying Rittenhouse Square is not a wealthy area? Is that what you are saying? What about Society Hill? Fitler Square?

Is that what you are saying?

[ElijahAstin]

Center City Zip Codes...

19102
Population: 4,705
Median Household Income: $65,703
% Households Earning >$200k: 6.3%
Median Family Income: $118,019
% Families Earning >$200k: 7.2%
Per Capita Income: $51,651

19103
Population: 21,908
Median Household Income: $55,938
% Households Earning >$200k: 11.5%
Median Family Income: $127,009
% Families Earing >$200k: 28.0%
Per Capita Income: $66,169

19106
Population: 11,740
Median Household Income: $93,222
% Households Earning >$200k: 18.8%
Median Family Income: $161,196
% Families Earning >$200k: 38.1%
Per Capita Income: $81,834

19107
Population: 14,875
Median Household Income: $42,184
% Households Earning >$200k: 2.7%
Median Family Income: $69,125
% Families Earning >$200k: 6.9%
Per Capita Income: $33,670

///

...Compared to Some of Their Wealthy Suburban Counterparts

19035/Gladwyne
Population: 3,780
Median Household Income: $135,724
% Households Earning >$200k: 36.5%
Median Family Income: $165,069
% Families Earning >$200k: 45.6%
Per Capita Income: $112,425

19317/Chadds Ford
Population: 9,530
Median Household Income: $102,436
% Households Earning >$200k: 24.2%
Median Family Income: $130,026
% Families Earning >$200k: 30.0%
Per Capita Income: $63,430

18977/Washington Crossing
Population: 4,291
Median Household Income: $147,520
% Households Earning >$200k: 27.9%
Median Family Income: $149,921
% Families Earning >$200k: 31.5%
Per Capita Income: $62,685

08057/Moorestown
Population: 21,090
Median household Income: $107,500
% Households Earning >$200k: 27.4%
Median Family Income: $133,881
% Households Earning >$200k: 34.3%
Per Capita Income: $62,010

08033/Haddonfield
Population: 16,261
Median Household Income: $101,902
% Households Earning >$200k: 16.9%
Median Family Income: $124,136
% Families Earning >$200k: 23.2%
Per Capita Income: $53,264

///

So as far as families and aggregate wealth go, 19103 and 19106 definitely rank among the best Philadelphia area zip codes.

[Cnote11]

Well... facts are facts.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by Cnote11

Well... facts are facts.

Indeed they are. I sometimes wish people would look them up before spouting off information they may very well be dead wrong about.