from Brooklyn to Philly.. need advice! (Philadelphia, Washington: middle-class, section 8, condo)

[eighthstarr]

So i'm considering a move to Philly from Brooklyn in the next year or so and would love advice from some natives on what would suit my husband and I. We've lived in Brooklyn for the past 10 years (both originallly from hudson valley ny), and have really enjoyed it but are craving a more livable life as we try and save money to start a family. We seem to keep moving further away from the epicenter of manhattan are currently residing in Bay Ridge which has been very pleasant but now takes about an hour plus to get to work. Part of me craves more of the small town feel I grew up with but I think i'm just having an extreme reaction to living in NYC for too long. I'm hoping Philly might be a nice compromise without having to leave city life behind. A similar living situation to what we have now for less money and shorter commute would be ideal; backyard, one car, tree-lined.. Neither of us makes very much money (at least by nyc standards) and probably never will so we need a balance of safety and affordability. We don't require a trendy neighborhood but would love to have a good grocery store, farmers market and some bars and restaurants nearby. We are planning on having kids in the near future so a neighborhood with young families would be a good fit. I've only been a tourist in Philadelphia before and would love some info on what neighborhoods we should be looking at. Would love to have mass transit nearby but we will also have our car. Let me know if you think Philly sounds right for us and what areas we should be checking out when we go to visit. Thank you so much!

[FindingZen]

At lot depends on where you might be working, what salary you expect to make and what your preferred housing budget is.

With relatively few exceptions, the suburbs are well-regarded and the schools are good to great.

The city itself, as you can imagine, is a little more complex. Areas that might have most of what you're looking for might include West/East Mount Airy, East Passyunk, Packer Park and the Far Northeast* in general. Regarding schools, a parent would definitely have to be proactive to steer their kids into the the more sought-after options, particularly at the high school level.

*The Far Northeast is indeed further from Center City, if that's important, than many western PA suburbs, let alone NJ 'burbs to the (south)east.

[Veve0308]

So you live in Bayridge huh? I used to live in Sheapshead Bay but currently own a home in Canarsie. I think suburbs of Philadelphia will be a great option for you and yet you still have access to the city. I lived in suburbs of Philadelphia from 2003- end of 2004 and loved it. Hubby and I lived in Delaware before moving to PA when I was offered a great job opportunity, we wanted the suburbs but also in a great schools district with access to city living. We chose Bala Cynwy because I worked in the area and loved it city line is right there, all kinds of great restaurant, shopping, parks, tree line quiet and clean. The area we lived in had so manny sessions, Bala Cynwy, Wynnewood, Narberth all little towns in same area great family community with great schools. Those area are a bit expensive as it is just minutes to Philadelphia but it was worth it. We were in a great location could go to Manayunk I think that is how it is spelled on the weekend tons of outside things to do. The fitness Center at Bala Cynwyd was just awesome. We paid $900 for a 1bdrm condo, with washer, dryer, storage room in basement, gated with court yard, dish washer and open floor plan with breakfast bar. That also came with onsite parking and it was quiet and safe. There is a park in the community that is just awesome clean. Hubby and I would go to Bed Bath and Beyond in Wynnewood, awesome mall, we shop for wholes in Narbeth again minutes driving. Had my hubby not have been offered a great paying job with perks out here in NY we would have happily lived there and raised our kids. Comming from NY we lived fairly well with vacations, and savings hubby and I made decent money there. I would say you might have to spend about 300k-400k you could prob. get a little bit less but it is worth it. If that area is too expensive than of cours there is Bucks county which is further out but you get more for your money house wise but for NYkers like us where we were was great, no cultural shock and some day when hubby retires from NY we are going right back there.

[Michael J. McFadden]

I wouldn't know what neighborhoods to recommend for the "young family" concentration, but Philly sounds like what you might be looking for in terms of the "small town feel" if you're native NYC folks: the pressures down here are a LOT lower than NYC! It also has pretty good mass transit (I'd say about 75% as good as NYC) and is pretty compact. Picture the five boroughs of NYC packed into Brooklyn/Queens with a greatly diminished lower/mid Manhattan. Housing prices/costs are WAYYYYY lower than in NY, and it's much friendlier overall for bicycling.

[tjr19136]

I would suggest the upper northeast for your situation and concerns, it sounds like the perfect fit. Something like Mayfair, Holmesburg, or Tacony, these are family orientated neighborhoods, pretty safe and includes bars, and restaurants. These neighborhoods also have that small town feel, unlike other parts of the city, and are inexpensive to live in especially now that the financial market is crashing and the housing bubble has exploded.

In addition, Mayfair is extremely Irish, whereas Holmesburg is more racially diverse, and Tacony is the poorest of the three.

[PennKid]

If I had to give to compare Brooklyn aesthetically and demographically to a single part of Philadelphia, I'd liken it to South Philly. I would say that South Street, while certainly much less low-rise than Downtown Brooklyn, is the northernmost reach of South Philly's influence (as opposed to Center City), and thus functions similarly, as a sort of meeting point whereupon people of all races and classes meet together for a cosmopolitan shopping experience.

Google street view 3rd and South for a good example.

Then, just south of South Street, you have affluent, gentrified neighborhoods, some of which were always middle-class such as Queen Village and Bella Vista (think Boerum Hill or Clinton Hill) and then historically black working-class areas that have gentrified considerably, such as Graduate Hospital and Hawthorne (think Prospect Heights or Fort Greene).

Google street view 2nd and Monroe, and 23rd and St. Albans, respectively, for Queen Village and Graduate Hospital.

Then, you have one large affluent gentrified "dagger" called East Passyunk (think Park Slope) jutting into otherwise working-class neighborhoods south of Washington:

Google 13th and Morris for a good example.

East of Broad, South of Washington, and apart from East Passyunk, you have a melange of relatively working-class but very vibrant and Italian, Irish, Vietnamese, and Mexican neighborhoods (think of a combination of Bensonhurst, Bay Ridge, and Sunset Park), with one notable 'old money' pocket in Girard Estates (think Dyker Heights or Ditmas)

Google 3rd and Dickinson for heavily Irish Pennsport, or 7th and Wharton for the mixed Italian-Mexican-Asianarea around Gold Star Park, or 20th and Porter for very Italian Girard Estates.

And then, after that, you have a mostly black and somewhat poor section west of Broad called Point Breeze (think Flatbush), with pockets of gentrification such as Newbold (think Crown Heights) and a working class-white pocket in Grays Ferry (think Canarsie or Red Hook).

16th and Moore is a pretty typical Newbold Block. 22nd and McKean is a rather typical Point Breeze block.

Finally, in the southernmost reaches of South Philly south of Oregon, you have middle-class semi-suburban neighborhoods composed almost entirely of Italian-Americans, similar to Marine Park, Gerritsen Beach, Bergen Beach, etc. Here's a pic:

Google the corner of Johnston and Darien for a typical block.

So, there you have it, South Philly in a detailed nutshell. The similarities are uncanny, although there are a few differences (no Hasidic Jews, for instance). I was an Urban Studies major in my undergrad, so comparing cities to one another, and measuring the vitality of given neighborhoods, was much of what I did for several years, and on top of that, I have hung around Brooklyn a bit before, too.

Anyway, I hope these descriptions help. If you want to explore on your own, try out this map of relative neighborhood safety, and Google Street explore the green and yellow parts at your leisure (PS, the map is two-layered!):

Philadelphia County Safety Map - Google Maps

Good luck!

[wordlife]

Great advice PennKid, I'm looking into relocating to philly as well but I think i'll actually take a look at some of those blocks areas in person in the next week or so. Any other suggestions for places north and west that are walkable/transit friendly?

[tjr19136]

North and West are either high class or low class there's no real middle. Except for in west you have Overbrook and Wynnefield, which were neighborhoods that black families lived when they had a few dollars, now those neighborhoods are falling down due to drugs, and section 8 housing. Plus those neighborhoods are not really transit friendly, unless you live near a main street.

[rotodome]

Man, I was an urban studies major once upon a time too, and sorry but I really wouldn't compare East Passyunk to Park Slope. Philly and Brooklyn do have lots of similarities, and there are parts of Brooklyn that remind me a lot of parts of Philly (eg: Carroll Gardens feels a lot like northern South Philly in places, Clinton Hill is a lot like University City, Brooklyn Heights feels somewhat like Rittenhouse Square, etc), but I would never make the stretch of saying South Philly was a microcosm of all the very various parts of Brooklyn. I really don't feel that comparison at all. Brooklyn is much more varied and diverse from an urban and architectural standpoint than just South Philly.

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by rotodome

Man, I was an urban studies major once upon a time too, and sorry but I really wouldn't compare East Passyunk to Park Slope. Philly and Brooklyn do have lots of similarities, and there are parts of Brooklyn that remind me a lot of parts of Philly (eg: Carroll Gardens feels a lot like northern South Philly in places, Clinton Hill is a lot like University City, Brooklyn Heights feels somewhat like Rittenhouse Square, etc), but I would never make the stretch of saying South Philly was a microcosm of all the very various parts of Brooklyn. I really don't feel that comparison at all. Brooklyn is much more varied and diverse from an urban and architectural standpoint than just South Philly.

I think that is very fair. If you come to Philly looking for NYC or BK even you may not find it. If you are alooking aspects that will feel similar or comfortable they can be found. There are aspects that can provide a similar feel but just purely on scale alone they are very different.