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For one thing I see this as a generational discussion because it's hard for you to view Philadelphia as it was because you were not around to see it.
How do you define world class? Paris and London had no tall buildings 35 years ago. No one will ever say they were not world class before that time.
What makes a city world class: History, tourism/niche industries, desirability, economy, wealth, strong transit/infrastructure systems, arts/entertainment, shopping, education opportunities and similar institutions are some things that come to mind. A skyline certainly adds some cachet.
Philadelphia has some form of all those mentioned items, the city has all the bones, I think what holds it back the most in 2016 is the lagging economy, slow growth, poverty, provincial/negative attitude (something I see more of in Philadelphia than other major American city), and competition from other Northeastern cities.
And to address everyone's posts at once, I don't want Philadelphia to be a soulless canyon of modern buildings like Dubai, I want a mixture of old and new with diversity. What gets me on here is how people are against any type of major development because they fear it will change the city or turn it into somethings its not (when maybe it would be the opposite), and when people clap and cheer about a Wawa coming to one of most prestigious retail corners in the city, and say things like "who needs a Gucci, I can't afford it anyway." It's a combination of ho-hum attitudes toward major progress and celebrations for lackluster improvements.
I am younger, I grew up in a different generation, I have traveled a lot, I am eager to see the city change and grow, the same cannot be said for many older, often times simple minded people. Clearly I'm not talking about you.
What makes a city world class: History, tourism/niche industries, desirability, economy, wealth, strong transit/infrastructure systems, arts/entertainment, shopping, education opportunities and similar institutions are some things that come to mind. A skyline certainly adds some cachet.
Philadelphia has some form of all those mentioned items, the city has all the bones, I think what holds it back the most in 2016 is the lagging economy, slow growth, poverty, provincial/negative attitude (something I see more of in Philadelphia than other major American city), and competition from other Northeastern cities.
And to address everyone's posts at once, I don't want Philadelphia to be a soulless canyon of modern buildings like Dubai, I want a mixture of old and new with diversity. What gets me on here is how people are against any type of major development because they fear it will change the city or turn it into somethings its not (when maybe it would be the opposite), and when people clap and cheer about a Wawa coming to one of most prestigious retail corners in the city, and say things like "who needs a Gucci, I can't afford it anyway." It's a combination of ho-hum attitudes toward major progress and celebrations for lackluster improvements.
I am younger, I grew up in a different generation, I have traveled a lot, I am eager to see the city change and grow, the same cannot be said for many older, often times simple minded people. Clearly I'm not talking about you.
You have the right attitude. Mixing of Old and new is What ultimately has to happen in non-original Colonial and older classic residential areas with protection for preservation. But the rest? The low-level old that really needs to be sacrificed for New. Many times the owners sit on it not doing much waiting for the Big Sale to make a nice profit.
Not all new will be great. But if a decent % is good to continue Philly's progress in the 21st century? Then it is the route to go. Chicago was such a city. Preservationist protected the best. Bu knew Some will be sacrificed. The result is a great mix of the best old and new. Philly is certainly on its way.
What makes a city world class: History, tourism/niche industries, desirability, economy, wealth, strong transit/infrastructure systems, arts/entertainment, shopping, education opportunities and similar institutions are some things that come to mind. A skyline certainly adds some cachet.
Philadelphia has some form of all those mentioned items, the city has all the bones, I think what holds it back the most in 2016 is the lagging economy, slow growth, poverty, provincial/negative attitude (something I see more of in Philadelphia than other major American city), and competition from other Northeastern cities.
And to address everyone's posts at once, I don't want Philadelphia to be a soulless canyon of modern buildings like Dubai, I want a mixture of old and new with diversity. What gets me on here is how people are against any type of major development because they fear it will change the city or turn it into somethings its not (when maybe it would be the opposite), and when people clap and cheer about a Wawa coming to one of most prestigious retail corners in the city, and say things like "who needs a Gucci, I can't afford it anyway." It's a combination of ho-hum attitudes toward major progress and celebrations for lackluster improvements.
I am younger, I grew up in a different generation, I have traveled a lot, I am eager to see the city change and grow, the same cannot be said for many older, often times simple minded people. Clearly I'm not talking about you.
I agree with all you've said.
The political "culture" does not help either although there is a better working relationship between Kenney and city council. There are also activists now on council like Allen Domb. Also younger people need to get more involved in politics...protests only go so far.
I've said it before: Ed Rendell ran and won the DA 's office when he was 33. That speaks volumes. Where are the millennials with that kind moxie? I don't see any which tends to keep too many Boomers or older GenXers running for offices again and again.
What makes a city world class: History, tourism/niche industries, desirability, economy, wealth, strong transit/infrastructure systems, arts/entertainment, shopping, education opportunities and similar institutions are some things that come to mind. A skyline certainly adds some cachet.
Philadelphia has some form of all those mentioned items, the city has all the bones, I think what holds it back the most in 2016 is the lagging economy, slow growth, poverty, provincial/negative attitude (something I see more of in Philadelphia than other major American city), and competition from other Northeastern cities.
And crime and urban decay probably. I did some streetviewing and Philly looks very rough in quite a lot of parts. Crime is too high and there are too many rough areas to be considered a 'world class city'.
And crime and urban decay probably. I did some streetviewing and Philly looks very rough in quite a lot of parts. Crime is too high and there are too many rough areas to be considered a 'world class city'.
But, you have to put all of that within the context and framework of Philadelphia being a post-industrial city. And it was a phenomenal industrial powerhouse for about a century.
And to address everyone's posts at once, I don't want Philadelphia to be a soulless canyon of modern buildings like Dubai, I want a mixture of old and new with diversity. What gets me on here is how people are against any type of major development because they fear it will change the city or turn it into somethings its not (when maybe it would be the opposite), and when people clap and cheer about a Wawa coming to one of most prestigious retail corners in the city, and say things like "who needs a Gucci, I can't afford it anyway." It's a combination of ho-hum attitudes toward major progress and celebrations for lackluster improvements.
I am younger, I grew up in a different generation, I have traveled a lot, I am eager to see the city change and grow, the same cannot be said for many older, often times simple minded people. Clearly I'm not talking about you.
A prime retail corner may not necessarily be a "prestigious" one. Recall that Jane Jacobs, writing in that famous 1961 book that put her on the map, made critical comments about how what was then the city's prime retail corner - Broad and Chestnut - had banks on all four corners.
Now there are none. Instead we have a Walgreens, a high-end steakhouse (and another in the same building as the Walgreens), a luxury hotel in the best of the old bank buildings and soon an A.C. Moore.
There was no upscale retail at Broad and Walnut when I moved here in 1983. There was the Bellevue-Stratford Hotel (I forget whether it was operating as the Fairmount at the time; it was post-Legionnaires' Disease debacle), Robinson Luggage, the Fidelity Bank and another bank where Banana Republic is now.
When the Bellevue was downsized and its building converted into a mixed-use property, we got Ralph Lauren, Gucci, Nicole Miller (highly regarded local designer) and a few other high-end tenants. Ralph Lauren survives. Williams-Sonoma took over Gucci's space. Nicole Miller's boutique is now a Swiss chocolatier, and what had been a cosmetics boutique now sells walking shoes.
The Wawa replaced Robinson Luggage. That bank became a Thos. Moser showroom (later moved to Wayne, now back on Walnut two blocks west) before becoming a Banana Republic. (I'm sure some of you are familiar with Thos. Moser; the furniture produced in its Maine workshop is far from low-end.) The Fidelity Bank got swallowed three times and is now Wells Fargo.
I recount all this simply to note that what many of you now decry will change again in due time. And while I do have a visceral dislike of what I've called "the Nordstrom fetish" among many, I don't believe we shouldn't have more high-end retail in the city. It's just that, if and when we ever reach the point where that's all we have, none of us participating in this discussion will be able to afford to live here - and affordability (relative to the East Coast) remains our ace in the hole. Let's not lose sight of the interests of that 99 percent.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl
A prime retail corner may not necessarily be a "prestigious" one. Recall that Jane Jacobs, writing in that famous 1961 book that put her on the map, made critical comments about how what was then the city's prime retail corner - Broad and Chestnut - had banks on all four corners.
Now there are none. Instead we have a Walgreens, a high-end steakhouse (and another in the same building as the Walgreens), a luxury hotel in the best of the old bank buildings and soon an A.C. Moore.
There was no upscale retail at Broad and Walnut when I moved here in 1983. There was the Bellevue-Stratford Hotel (I forget whether it was operating as the Fairmount at the time; it was post-Legionnaires' Disease debacle), Robinson Luggage, the Fidelity Bank and another bank where Banana Republic is now.
When the Bellevue was downsized and its building converted into a mixed-use property, we got Ralph Lauren, Gucci, Nicole Miller (highly regarded local designer) and a few other high-end tenants. Ralph Lauren survives. Williams-Sonoma took over Gucci's space. Nicole Miller's boutique is now a Swiss chocolatier, and what had been a cosmetics boutique now sells walking shoes.
The Wawa replaced Robinson Luggage. That bank became a Thos. Moser showroom (later moved to Wayne, now back on Walnut two blocks west) before becoming a Banana Republic. (I'm sure some of you are familiar with Thos. Moser; the furniture produced in its Maine workshop is far from low-end.) The Fidelity Bank got swallowed three times and is now Wells Fargo.
I recount all this simply to note that what many of you now decry will change again in due time. And while I do have a visceral dislike of what I've called "the Nordstrom fetish" among many, I don't believe we shouldn't have more high-end retail in the city. It's just that, if and when we ever reach the point where that's all we have, none of us participating in this discussion will be able to afford to live here - and affordability (relative to the East Coast) remains our ace in the hole. Let's not lose sight of the interests of that 99 percent.
Thank you. That's the thing that drives me nuts. Yes, there should be some upscale shopping. No, it shouldn't be at the expense of shopping for the 99%.
My favorite ad from the Inquirer, for years, from an amusement standpoint was Madame Wellington's, at the Bellevue, that is after the Troc closed down.
Robinson Luggage had a 2nd location in Cherry Hill, just off the Route 38 circle. They had good, utilitarian luggage.
But can both exist? Can we have high end retail and have a good COL (and shopping for the 99%)? A lot of it relies on the cost of rent and medium income, right?
But can both exist? Can we have high end retail and have a good COL (and shopping for the 99%)? A lot of it relies on the cost of rent and medium income, right?
I can think of one city where this is the case.
It's the one where I was born and raised.
cpomp knows about Halls, and even though it's a shell of what it once was, it's still very impressive. And it's homegrown - pure Kansas City.
The Country Club Plaza was more mixed than it is now when I was a child, but it still draws shoppers from all over even in its more thoroughgoingly elevated state.
And there's plenty of middle-market shopping all over the area. I just cracked open the latest issue of 435 and found an ad for a new shopping center at 135th and Metcalf in Overland Park (this was farmland when I lived there). Anchor stores include JC Penney, Stein Mart and Von Maur; how much more eclectic a mix can you have? (For those of you not familiar with the chain, Von Maur is the Nordstrom of the Central Plains. It's expanded from a single store in Davenport, Iowa, into cities throughout the Midwest, and now the Southeast.)
cpomp knows about Halls, and even though it's a shell of what it once was, it's still very impressive. And it's homegrown - pure Kansas City.
The Country Club Plaza was more mixed than it is now when I was a child, but it still draws shoppers from all over even in its more thoroughgoingly elevated state.
And there's plenty of middle-market shopping all over the area. I just cracked open the latest issue of 435 and found an ad for a new shopping center at 135th and Metcalf in Overland Park (this was farmland when I lived there). Anchor stores include JC Penney, Stein Mart and Von Maur; how much more eclectic a mix can you have? (For those of you not familiar with the chain, Von Maur is the Nordstrom of the Central Plains. It's expanded from a single store in Davenport, Iowa, into cities throughout the Midwest, and now the Southeast.)
I've looked up Country Club Plaza many times (great setup) and one of the better attempts at trying to emulate an urban environment.
I am not trying to insult Kansas City at all, and But Philadelphia and Kansas City are not and should not be in the same playing field. Philadelphia should be compared and emulate (while keeping some features unique to Philadelphia) Boston, DC, San Fran, NYC and Chicago. I know a lot of people on here fear rising rents and affordability beginning to diminish in the city, but that is just a result of the growth and progress.
So you have to pick your poison: stagnant, lets settle for average, OR dynamic and striving for the best
Plus Philadelphia is still no where near as expensive as NYC and Boston, and still fairly far behind DC, we are just beginning to surpass Baltimore.
And believe it or not (not addressing you specifically) but retail is a huge tourism draw, and should not be ignored just because you may not be interested/cannot afford to shop there.
King of Prussia Mall for example is one of the most visited and profitable malls in the country. That mall alone in a year gets more visitors than Atlantic City. Image the benefits that would have if that were emulated in Philadelphia (not that its really possible right now, but I am just making a point that retail/high end retail is very important, and a city of Philadelphias size needs more than just mom n pop shops if it wants to continue to break out of its shell).
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Mixing of Old and new is What ultimately has to happen in non-original Colonial and older classic residential areas with protection for preservation. But the rest? The low-level old that really needs to be sacrificed for New. Many times the owners sit on it not doing much waiting for the Big Sale to make a nice profit. 
