Philadelphia 2035 (theater, food, rated) - Pennsylvania (PA) - Page 44 - City-Data Forum

Marius Pontmercy · 07-08-2012, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drive carephilly

To be fair, the University City Station is pretty close to the project. If there was a pedestrian ramp from the bridge into the complex we're talking a 5 or 6 minute walk from the station.

I'm also a firm believer that the 42 bus should be a trolley (as in a modern streetcar, not the old Kawasaki cars currently in service) that runs the length of Spruce St. in West Philly and keeps going down South/Lombard through CC.

The area already has a plethora of transit - with the train station and the 40, 12 and the 7 bus. The bus routes just need better headways.

The route 42 bus is way too far from the CHOP expansion as well, and would make an awful light rail line. Unless you could give it a dedicated ROW, but there's no room for that on Spruce or Walnut Sts. You'd basically just be making a slower bus. A smoother, more enjoyable slow bus, but a slow bus none the less. The 40 would be better, as it services South St, but again, its not a good candidate for conversion to light rail either. Probably the best thing to do would be to build a pedestrian connection to University City Station, but then to also to route more trains through to that side of the Regional Rail system, or have them terminate there and just track back to 30th Street Station again. Unfortunately University City Station can't accommodate trains from the Trenton Line, which is a pretty big inconvenience as well.

drive carephilly · 07-08-2012, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marius Pontmercy

The route 42 bus is way too far from the CHOP expansion as well, and would make an awful light rail line. Unless you could give it a dedicated ROW, but there's no room for that on Spruce or Walnut Sts. You'd basically just be making a slower bus. A smoother, more enjoyable slow bus, but a slow bus none the less.

The 42 bus loops through the current CHOP complex before it turns north to duplicate what the 21 bus already does. The only difference in my suggestion would be that the 42 would cross the South St. bridge and do what the 40 bus already does (eliminating the need for the 40 bus as currently configured). It would add capacity to the corridor, connect two of the busiest activity center in the city, connect with the subway/surface routes, the BSL and every other n/s bus route in the city

As to your other point - That's how every trolley in Philadelphia operates. In the street. With traffic. The subway/surface routes have their UC/CC tunnel and the 15 trolley has it's own ROW east of Broad St. but most trolley trackage in this city is just that - in the street. Transit-first technology has been around for a while (SEPTA is installing it on some existing routes) and can speed up trip times significantly - especially with low platform boarding and SEPTAs new fare system (if it ever gets here).

More importantly - streetcars can carry twice as many people as a bus and if you want to add a 2nd car there's no need for another driver (not with the new fare system at least).

Quote:

Probably the best thing to do would be to build a pedestrian connection to University City Station, but then to also route more trains through to that side of the Regional Rail system, or have them terminate there and just track back to 30th Street Station again. Unfortunately University City Station can't accommodate trains from the Trenton Line, which is a pretty big inconvenience as well.

Good points . . . and i'm pretty sure the Airport Line has a useful siding for turning trains.

Why can't Trenton trains use U. City station?

Marius Pontmercy · 07-08-2012, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drive carephilly

The 42 bus loops through the current CHOP complex before it turns north to duplicate what the 21 bus already does. The only difference in my suggestion would be that the 42 would cross the South St. bridge and do what the 40 bus already does (eliminating the need for the 40 bus as currently configured). It would add capacity to the corridor, connect two of the busiest activity center in the city, connect with the subway/surface routes, the BSL and every other n/s bus route in the city

As to your other point - That's how every trolley in Philadelphia operates. In the street. With traffic. The subway/surface routes have their UC/CC tunnel and the 15 trolley has it's own ROW east of Broad St. but most trolley trackage in this city is just that - in the street. Transit-first technology has been around for a while (SEPTA is installing it on some existing routes) and can speed up trip times significantly - especially with low platform boarding and SEPTAs new fare system (if it ever gets here).

More importantly - streetcars can carry twice as many people as a bus and if you want to add a 2nd car there's no need for another driver (not with the new fare system at least).

Good points . . . and i'm pretty sure the Airport Line has a useful siding for turning trains.

Why can't Trenton trains use U. City station?

They can't access the tunnel without first going through to Suburban Station and reversing directions.

I didn't know the 42 went down there, although I'd still keep the 40 in service. I used it to get to the BSL when I lived in Queen Village. It provides good feeder service from that corner of Center City/South Philly to the subway. Still though, it's a hard sell for LRT along that corridor. We're talking streets that are already pretty congested downtown. One reason the trolleys we already have work as well as they do is because they either travel through a less dense area along a wider street (route 15) or they become grade separated in the subway once they reach the higher densities downtown (routes 10, 11, 13, 34, and 36). What might not be a bad idea would be to reopen the closed 24th Street trolley portal and then run a route down the east bank of the Schuylkill River. You might even be able to run on the CSX tracks a la the River Line in NJ, albeit electrified. Put a loop at the new CHOP facilities.

Darbarian · 07-09-2012, 06:22 AM

Amtrak's high-speed Northeast Corridor plan at $151 billion

Pretty good article, and the comments section is hysterical as always.

Marius Pontmercy · 07-09-2012, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darbarian

Amtrak's high-speed Northeast Corridor plan at $151 billion

Pretty good article, and the comments section is hysterical as always.

IMO that plan is way too ambitious. I doubt if it will ever be fully realized, at least in my lifetime. That being said, the first few phases of that plan should, and probably eventually will be done in the near future. Eliminating bottlenecks and upgrading the existing track would go a long way in and of itself. Tunneling under Philadelphia is a bit over the top though. Plus, I'd like to see the rest of that money go towards upgrading other lines, for instance bringing the Keystone/Pennsylvanian line to Pittsburgh up to 110mph along its full length.