When is PennDOT going to learn how to work smart? (Pittsburgh: credit, house)

[fisheye]

I spent 100,000 miles a year on the road as a truck driver. I have driven through most states except for the Northwestern states. I have come to admire what I perceive as “smart” roadwork. Unfortunately, most of this smart roadwork, I saw in other states. I do admit that I know nothing of the cost of this smart roadwork – only my experience driving on the roads and through the roadwork zones.

One example of the “dumb” roadwork that PA does is a three mile section of Route 314 close to my house in Monroe County. We closed the road for ten months for bridge replacement. We then reopened the road three weeks ago and now are closing one lane for tree trimming. The road also has a bad culvert that leaks water every heavy rain. When we have a road closed is an excellent time to do additional roadwork – you do not wait until the road is reopened. The new bridge, that they completed, is also a bumpy ride.

Many states work quicker and facilitate traffic better through their work zones. Ohio does a great job. New Jersey, Tennessee, Georgia and many other states seem to work much smarter.

According to the National Highway Safety Administration figures; only about ten percent of work zone accidents occur involve pedestrians. Most of people that die in work zones are the motorist or highway workers in vehicles. It isn't that highway work is not dangerous – it is just that we pay the price for inefficient roadwork. The quicker the work is done and the greater the life expectancy of the actual work ; the safer our ride.

Our goal should be to take the best practices, from other states, and try to improve them – so we are the best. If Tennessee can mill, pave, and roll five miles of asphalt (fifteen feet wide) in one ten hour day; we should be able to duplicate their accomplishment. If New Jersey can lay asphalt proficiently at night; why can't we? If Ohio and Missouri allow the lighter traffic to run on the shoulders in work zones; why can't we? If Ohio can build a new 21 pier bridge (for Route 80), three lanes wide and half mile long, over the lake Meander Reservoir in one year; why can't we?

[thecoalman]

This past fall they were tarring some cracks in the road near my house. There was 14 of them on the site.... Two guys directing traffic, one guy blowing the dirt out of the cracks, one guy running the tar nozzle, 4 guys in trucks but questionable if they needed that many sitting there. That's 8 people working....

[fisheye]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

This past fall they were tarring some cracks in the road near my house. There was 14 of them on the site.... Two guys directing traffic, one guy blowing the dirt out of the cracks, one guy running the tar nozzle, 4 guys in trucks but questionable if they needed that many sitting there. That's 8 people working....

I watched eleven workers repair one large pothole in front of my old shop back in the 1970's. It took them all day. I also had PennDOT crews that used to use the back of my parking lot to sleep.

I find fault with poor workmanship and planning. Our State repaved a section of Route 611 just a few years ago and it is all breaking up again. We pave over old concrete that has bad drainage – the road is over fifty years old. Thin asphalt will not last over wet concrete with poor drainage. This is just a waste of taxpayer money. It is also dangerous to motorist. The more time our workers spend on our roads; the greater a chance of an accident.

We are terrible at planning. We will close a lane one day to pick up litter and the next day to repair potholes. Or shut down a road for bridge repair and then do other road repair after we open the road back up. Our roads are too dangerous for workfare or bad planning.

[Craziaskowboi]

Honestly, I can't really fault PennDOT's workmanship, considering they rebuilt I-79 in Washington County 20 years ago, and only recently has it even needed an asphalt overlay. Honestly, any segment of road or highway rebuilt by PennDOT in the Pittsburgh area since the 1990's has held up pretty well.

As for the road with the new asphalt over the poorly-drained concrete, maybe they don't yet have the funds to rebuild it, but it's in queue, and they've given it a temporary overlay to make it smoother in the interim.

[fisheye]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

Honestly, I can't really fault PennDOT's workmanship, considering they rebuilt I-79 in Washington County 20 years ago, and only recently has it even needed an asphalt overlay. Honestly, any segment of road or highway rebuilt by PennDOT in the Pittsburgh area since the 1990's has held up pretty well.

As for the road with the new asphalt over the poorly-drained concrete, maybe they don't yet have the funds to rebuild it, but it's in queue, and they've given it a temporary overlay to make it smoother in the interim.

That is also one of the problems with PennDOT. Yes; The Pittsburgh area does many things better than my area. I have watched them use the shoulders of the road for light traffic (no heavy commercial trucks) in road work zones. It is a smart way to keep traffic moving through the work zone. Perhaps they work smarter because they are closer to Ohio that does many things smart?

However, when you drive across our State in a snowstorm; you can see the difference in individual highway departments. Some are out with the first flake falling and some don't come out until the first accident. I also liked crossing into Massachusetts, in a snow storms, because they did a better job on snow removal than the surrounding states.

I know that our budget is tight. But we tend to waste money. I have seen what I call election year blacktop in many areas of our State as well as some other New England States. This blacktop is a very thin layer put on old concrete in the months just before key elections. It looks like the only reason it is applied is so the voters think the incumbents are doing a great job. It usually last only months and then breaks up – so it is put down in the last few months before the election.

I also know that things are never simple. Asphalt is not just asphalt. There are newer forms of asphalt that last longer (stone matrix or Superpave). The speed of the pavers are dictated by the speed of the asphalt plants and how quick they can get the asphalt to the pavers. I don't think that I ever saw one of your asphalt plants by Pittsburgh? I do know that my county has an old outdated plant that is owned by a major highway construction company.

I started this thread because I want us to work smart. If your area works smart; I want our area to work just as smart. Or, if another state does it better; I want us to do it better.

[pman]

nj spends a lot more per mile i believe with a big chunk going to administrative expenses. not tthat there isnt room for improvement, im sure theres plenty...pergaps gnutella is right though, we dont give it credit dor what it does do right.

[Hopes]

When is Penndot going to learn how to work smart? NEVER! It's job security to work dumb.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

Honestly, I can't really fault PennDOT's workmanship, considering they rebuilt I-79 in Washington County 20 years ago, and only recently has it even needed an asphalt overlay. Honestly, any segment of road or highway rebuilt by PennDOT in the Pittsburgh area since the 1990's has held up pretty well.

This is true. I've heard there are special challenges with the turnpike due to how it was originally built. That's why the previous repairs didn't hold. It didn't have a good enough base and it would continually collapse. Now, when they do sections, they need to completely rebuild the road by tearing out 20 feet down. Since it's super expensive to do it right, they can only do so much at a time the proper way. The rest just gets temporarily patched until they have the time and money to do it right.

[pman]

Originally Posted by Hopes

This is true. I've heard there are special challenges with the turnpike due to how it was originally built. That's why the previous repairs didn't hold. It didn't have a good enough base and it would continually collapse. Now, when they do sections, they need to completely rebuild the road by tearing out 20 feet down. Since it's super expensive to do it right, they can only do so much at a time the proper way. The rest just gets temporarily patched until they have the time and money to do it right.

its worth remembering the turnpike was the first of its kind and originally built on an unfinished rail bed.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by pman

its worth remembering the turnpike was the first of its kind and originally built on an unfinished rail bed.

Yes, I offered it as a reasonable excuse for why Penndot hasn't been able to maintain the turnpike better.

Event they know what needs to be done, it will take many years to correct the problem.