When is PennDOT going to learn how to work smart? (Philadelphia: contractors, university)

[Craziaskowboi]

Maybe some PennDOT districts are just more competent than others, which could explain the differences in snow removal and stuff like that. You also have to factor in the quality of the contractors. Maybe western Pennsylvania has better contractors than eastern Pennsylvania does.

As for the Turnpike, that's exactly why it's being rebuilt mostly in western and central Pennsylvania right now: because the original roadbed was literally crumbling after 60 years. The new roadbeds in the segments that have been reconstructed are twice as deep as the original roadbeds, and made with better materials. It is an expensive and time-consuming process, though. I imagine the last segment to be worked on is between Harrisburg and the Philadelphia suburbs, because that's the "newest" segment, so to speak. The roadbed there is old, but still in acceptable condition.

On a related note, that's another problem that civil engineers encounter: people complain about the condition of roads and highways, but then they also complain about the cost of doing highway construction the right way.

By the way, PennDOT doesn't maintain the Turnpike; the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission does -- and for all the controversy around the agency these days, they've still done a good job reconstructing the highway. It's also worth noting that PennDOT scalps some money off the top of the Turnpike revenue, which doesn't really seem fair to me, and probably explains why the two agencies are still separate: so nobody starts using the Turnpike as a cash cow for non-toll projects.

[pman]

the op is from northeastern pa which may just be the most corrupt part of pa which is saying a lot. it wouldnt surprise me if thi gs were run differently there. penndot has been much improved in sepa.

[fisheye]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

Maybe some PennDOT districts are just more competent than others, which could explain the differences in snow removal and stuff like that. You also have to factor in the quality of the contractors. Maybe western Pennsylvania has better contractors than eastern Pennsylvania does.

As for the Turnpike, that's exactly why it's being rebuilt mostly in western and central Pennsylvania right now: because the original roadbed was literally crumbling after 60 years. The new roadbeds in the segments that have been reconstructed are twice as deep as the original roadbeds, and made with better materials. It is an expensive and time-consuming process, though. I imagine the last segment to be worked on is between Harrisburg and the Philadelphia suburbs, because that's the "newest" segment, so to speak. The roadbed there is old, but still in acceptable condition.

On a related note, that's another problem that civil engineers encounter: people complain about the condition of roads and highways, but then they also complain about the cost of doing highway construction the right way.

By the way, PennDOT doesn't maintain the Turnpike; the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission does -- and for all the controversy around the agency these days, they've still done a good job reconstructing the highway. It's also worth noting that PennDOT scalps some money off the top of the Turnpike revenue, which doesn't really seem fair to me, and probably explains why the two agencies are still separate: so nobody starts using the Turnpike as a cash cow for non-toll projects.

For many years we had only one contractor that did most of our Interstate work in our County. They are based in Philadelphia. In the late 1990's they repaved a section of Route 80 by Tannersville. One to three months later is was riddled with potholes. I complained to my District Representative that they should be forced to redo the pavement. I told him that I would have the guy in court if they did that to my driveway. Months went by and finally PennDOT was out repairing the potholes. I went down again to my Representative to complain. I was then told that the contractor would be barred from other State contracts. That was not the case; they were once again busy the following year. This same contractor owns the asphalt plant in my County.

I just want us to work smart. No matter where in this State the work is done. Texas had notoriously bad roads and they turned themselves around. I know that money is tight – but working smart will give us more bang for the bucks.

The NHTSA ran an article called “Building a Better Mouse Trap” several years ago. In that article they talked about leasing our roads to contractors – therefor giving them a financial interest in working quick. They also talked about forcing contractors to warranty their work – no more hit & run and leave the taxpayer the bill.

[Boompa]

Working smart is not the objective, diverting tax dollars to your cousins construction company is

[greg42]

Originally Posted by Hopes

Yes, I offered it as a reasonable excuse for why Penndot hasn't been able to maintain the turnpike better.

Event they know what needs to be done, it will take many years to correct the problem.

The Turnpike is not maintained by PennDOT. Turnpike Commission maintenance/snow removal/rebuilding is completely separate.

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by Hopes

Yes, I offered it as a reasonable excuse for why Penndot hasn't been able to maintain the turnpike better.

Event they know what needs to be done, it will take many years to correct the problem.

The problem is that it was built 60 years ago. The total thickness of the road bed is relative becsue they moved a lot earth for the turnpike. That road is built through the terrain, now they build Interstates around the terrain. The next time you're on the turnpike check the grade of the road, it's flat. There is no "dips", not sure if that is correct term but you wouldn't notice it unless you were going 120. It's more like a racetrack than a road.

As I understand the issue is not the top section which is 9 inches of concrete but the base which doesn't have enough drainage. The other thing is when they built that road the trucks using it were only 1/3 the size they are now so at that point in time it was way over built.

As far as PennDot goes as already mentioned they don't maintain the Turnpike, they do take about half revenue and use it on Penndot roads.

The Pennsylvania Turnpike

In July 2007, Governor Rendell signed Act 44 into law, requiring the PTC to make payments to PennDOT for statewide transportation needs. In order to provide the payments, the PTC must increase its toll rates each year. A key part of Act 44 was the application to the Federal Highway Administration for permission to place tolls on Interstate 80 (I-80). The tolls would have funded I-80’s reconstruction and payments to PennDOT. After three years of studies (Click here for timeline), the federal government denied the application to convert I-80 to a tolled facility. The PTC, however, still must continue to make significant payments to PennDOT.
In addition to increased toll rates along the PA Turnpike, it is likely the PTC will have to cut spending on its own long-term projects and capital expenses, to maintain the mandated level of funding to PennDOT.

• The PTC has paid $3.737 billion to PennDOT to date.
• The PTC must pay $450 million each year, through the year 2057.
• By the end of the 50-year lease period outlined in the law, the PTC will have provided nearly $24 billion in supplemental funding Non-Turnpike projects.

[fisheye]

thecoalman,

Road drainage is one of our biggest problems. Many of the roadbeds were put in fifty or more years ago. Then they used galvanized culverts – not plastic that last forever. Whether you are on the Turnpike or PennDOT roads you can still see some of the old rusty culverts (if you look close). The roadbeds themselves have filled in over the years – they were originally made with crushed rock that has now filled in with sediment.

We have better tools (machinery) and better materials than we had fifty to one hundred years ago. We also know how to work smarter. We just seem to have a hard time applying this to the job that has to be done. Politics and money are two of our largest shackles.

Most of the hopes and dreams of the last generation are gone. Fifty years ago there was the promise of a brighter future. We were going to improve our roads and work smarter. The plans were on the table – most never materialized. However; we were planning. Now we have planning commissions that are only proactive. When a large business is coming into town we plan to accommodate that particular business. We cannot look into the future without financial and political motivation.

[Polniere]

It took PennDOT more than 5 years to rebuild a small bridge by my dads house in Harrisburg. I almost never saw anyone working on it. It was just one of those instances where they close something down to repair/rebuild, and move on to the next project without finishing the first.

[fisheye]

Originally Posted by Polniere

It took PennDOT more than 5 years to rebuild a small bridge by my dads house in Harrisburg. I almost never saw anyone working on it. It was just one of those instances where they close something down to repair/rebuild, and move on to the next project without finishing the first.

I watched Ohio build a new three lane bridge for Route 80 in one year. It was half a mile long and had twenty piers over the Lake Meander Reservoir. PA was working on a two lane bridge that was about a hundred feet long at that time. It took us just about an equal time to finish our bridge.

In Georgia in the late 90's they were redoing I 95. The contractor would redo every bridge and the road in a ten mile section – in just a one year timetable. I don't know if it was the same contractor – but they would work one of these sections in Northern GA and one in Southern GA at the same time. They did this while still allowing traffic to move at 60 mph. Ohio usually keeps traffic moving at 60 through their work zones. I also saw far fewer work zone accidents in states with higher work zone speed limits – but it had to do with the planning and layout of the actual work zones.

PS Happy Easter!

[SorryIMovedBack]

When is PennDOT going to learn how to work smart?

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Surely, you jest.

PennDot painted new lines on miles of road near my house. It really needed it, too. But less than a week later, a paving contractor showed up and repaved all of that road. Then PennDot painted new lines on it all over again. Just poor timing, I guess. ;-)