tioga/potter county deals (Bradford, Mansfield: buying, oil, land)

[PAhippo]

except there won't be any hassles. If your name isn't on the gas lease, they can do what they want. No point in hassling. the guy who's name is on the leae could but probably only cares about the money. Kinda thinking maybe Maine myself.

[chuck172]

Thank you for your very blunt and knowledgeable reply wanneroo. You really set my thinking straight!
What's next, should I be looking into Maine? (PAhippo)

[ki0eh]

The commercial exploitation of the shale gas has been limited to the Allegheny Plateau which does extend into NY state. It is possible that when (not if, when) the drilling is freed up that major watersheds might be taken off the table. But those areas are also where the watershed police are most active regarding septic systems, etc. Not only New York City, but also Syracuse's watershed around Skaneateles Lake might be worth looking into, Skaneateles itself is possibly the priciest of the Finger Lakes, but the watershed extends into the Bear Swamp area in southeast Cayuga County that might as well be Potter County (except of course for the property tax burden, the local property tax payer in NYS is expected to pay for Medicaid benefit levels set in NY City).

Or head beyond the gas shale zone, into Tug Hill or the Adirondacks.

There still is a section of PA that's too far to commute to job opportunities in the major and rimshot metros that's not in the gas shale zone, say from Bedford and Fulton counties in the south through Blair, Huntingdon, Mifflin, Juniata, Union, Snyder, Perry, upper Dauphin, Northumberland, Montour, and most of Columbia. The land in these areas used to be more expensive because it was closer for metro weekenders, but without the gas industry and with the housing crash this might be a better opportunity zone for some quiet enjoyment of nature.

Some parts of southwest Virginia seem to have cheap land, likewise between the shale and the coal. I'm talking about out beyond Blacksburg. Maine's probably closer...

[PAhippo]

Originally Posted by chuck172

Thank you for your very blunt and knowledgeable reply wanneroo. You really set my thinking straight!
What's next, should I be looking into Maine? (PAhippo)

if you're not in a hurry. VA, WV, northern part of NC, the Adirondack section of NY, and ME would all be worth looking into. From what I've heard VT and NH are very expensive but that may/may not be true considering taxes, ins and all the other costs of owning land. Every place has advantages and disadvantages. You just have to set your priorities and cross your fingers.

[Honest Bob]

Instead of using the mind set of owning a small piece of land next to a large piece of government land - your options should be to own a small piece of land that no one else wants.

If you migrate up towards Marionville PA - you will find what you are looking for.

Basically peace and quiet.
Since there is not a huntable population of deer up there anymore, most of the camps up that way are for sale.

You are not going to steal them - hence getting them cheap - is not an option. But if you have $20,000.00 - $50,000 to spend - you can get a pretty nice place that is already established with all the amenities.

The people up there are real nice and the water is safe to drink.
I'm holding my breath on the natural gas people right now.
I know what they did to our public drinking water when they drilled a half dozen wells in my area back in the early 1960's.

The water turned a bright orange and was undrinkable to this day.

[wanneroo]

Originally Posted by PAhippo

except there won't be any hassles. If your name isn't on the gas lease, they can do what they want. No point in hassling. the guy who's name is on the leae could but probably only cares about the money. Kinda thinking maybe Maine myself.

If there is any gas lease regardless of who leased the land, the gas company has certain restrictions, but they can do what they need to do to get the gas. If that ruins your scenic views or creates noise or disturbs land, so be it. I think a lot of people have been surprised locally when gas companies have done stuff like that, but they didn't read the fine print on their lease.

As I said the gas companies have tried to avoid ticking people off, but to sink wells, there is going to be some impact. Almost every piece of private property in the county is now leased, something like 98%, so at some point all of that is going to be completely tapped by gas wells.

[PAhippo]

but do they really have to honor those restrictions if the leasee doesn't care?honestly curious as I would really like to move back to Tioga Co next yr but can't find a place that doesn't include gas rights. If my way of thinking is right, I won't buy a place that doesn't. If you're right, I would.

[wanneroo]

Originally Posted by PAhippo

but do they really have to honor those restrictions if the leasee doesn't care?honestly curious as I would really like to move back to Tioga Co next yr but can't find a place that doesn't include gas rights. If my way of thinking is right, I won't buy a place that doesn't. If you're right, I would.

Restrictions might include being a certain distance from dwellings or "wetlands". I don't get exactly what your train of thinking is, but if the land is leased it will be eventually put under a "production unit". It might be some land owners may have minimal impact from wells due to their location, others are not so lucky.

Probably the only scenario I might consider to buy land without OGM rights is a small house lot, otherwise I think it's pretty foolish.

The one scenario that is happening now is they are rapidly sinking wells to tie up leases, not to pump gas, so a lot of people expecting big royalties may not realize that for 10-40 years. There is some gas being pumped but not a lot, the main priority is getting those leases locked up.

[ki0eh]

Originally Posted by wanneroo

The one scenario that is happening now is they are rapidly sinking wells to tie up leases, not to pump gas, so a lot of people expecting big royalties may not realize that for 10-40 years. There is some gas being pumped but not a lot, the main priority is getting those leases locked up.

And of course the next shoe to drop is to lay gathering lines to all those wellheads, including compressor stations - a frac job is a temporary disturbance of the peace, a compressor station is a lifetime.

[wanneroo]

Originally Posted by ki0eh

And of course the next shoe to drop is to lay gathering lines to all those wellheads, including compressor stations - a frac job is a temporary disturbance of the peace, a compressor station is a lifetime.

I've heard they have found a way to soundproof the compressor stations, which should help some. And there is some pipeline going in, but the main priority is getting wells started. All I have heard locally is on most wells they are only going down a 1000ft and then sealing it off to permanently lock up the lease.

Within 10 years, the whole county will be entirely covered with wells, pipeline and compressor stations.