Helping with Homework (punishing, play, safety, learn)

[dblackga]

Originally Posted by LiLShorty4lyfe

3. Thank you for this, too. She acts mature for any age, possibly because she's an only child but my saying "You are nine years old and have no right to speak to your parents that way" is different than showing her, hey you're 9, it doesn't really matter what you think about what im saying right now.

I strongly recommend a book to you: "Parenting with Love and Logic" by Cline and Fay. There's a fundamental mindset that parents need when determining and implementing consequences for behavior, and establishing healthy parent-child boundaries.

An only child has learned how to deal with adults -- often not other kids, though. Sometimes they go off the deep end in their adult interactions, because they have been treated as older than they are and feel that they are on somewhat of an "even footing" with other adults. They are 9. As another poster pointed out -- the mouthing off is NOT the act of a mature kid. It's the act of a kid who thinks she's more mature than she is. :-)

[dblackga]

Originally Posted by MaryleeII

Look, both my kids are in HS, have after-school athletics, and both work jobs. We're talking about 10th and 12th grades, and they still send home those $*&% projects, with barely enough time to do them, let alone run all over getting just the right materials, etc. Look, teachers, you know at the beginning of the school year what your plans are, why can't you include all that at the beginning, also, on the supply lists, instead of giving people an unreasonably short time to respond? And why do you insist we get all that crap at the end of the month, when many of use only get paid once/month? Teachers are great at whining they are "overworked and underpaid" but just a little consideration that students and parents do have other obligations other than to wait for you to throw stuff at us and make it our number one priority

Look, I do those silly da**ed projects. Ok, I know, how will the kid learn? Learn to do what---make posters? My dd is an honors student, my ds has adhd and has a full schedule already, I spend my days running around buying all that crap and making pretties to please the teacher. One of my kids got literally a 2-day notice to make a brain Out of what? oh, the usual answer....stuff you have around the house. Sorry, no unused brains around here! Geez! The kid is supposed to put his life on hold, run out with mommy to Hobby Lobby and buy stuff to "make a brain". He also got called in to work tonight, so, he's supposed to say sorry, I can't come in I was given 2 days to make a brain? I told him go on, don't worry about it. I took apart a Christmas ball, cut it in half, hand drawed some stuff on the outside and labeled various parts, then tore up an old tee shirt to cover it, glued t on, make "parts" for the inside using stuff I've collected over the years, look.....that took hours, and wha would he have learned, cutting, glue, paste, draw, I was hoping that stuff would end with HS, guess it never does. I figure as long as he knows the parts of the brain, can spell them, where they are located and what they do, he doesn't learn anything more by playing artsy fartsy half the night

Guess I'm a bad momma! I don't consider making that dam*ed thing any different than hemming his pants! Teachers, if you want your stupid projects taken seriously, then get real, and give a person enough time to do it

Just a couple of observations:

1. If you kids are both working during the school week and doing after-school athletics, they are doing too much. Perhaps they need to cut back to working on weekends, only. If they are working during the week to the point where they do not have time to complete small projects such as this, they are working too many hours.

2. IMHO, you are sending some very mixed message. If school is the most important things these kids are responsible for, then other things need to make way for it. Right now, you are telling the kids that it is more important to earn money than it is to complete their own school work. If school is the most important thing these kids are responsible for, then time needs to be made for that. You are teaching them to cheat. It's a very small step between Mom doing a school project for you -- and paying someone to write a college paper for you.

3. Your scathing "stupid projects" comments are not supportive. I know you think you are being supportive by doing their projects for them . . . but you aren't being supportive. You are enabling their poor time-management skills.

[germaine2626]

Originally Posted by MaryleeII

Look, both my kids are in HS, have after-school athletics, and both work jobs. We're talking about 10th and 12th grades, and they still send home those $*&% projects, with barely enough time to do them, let alone run all over getting just the right materials, etc. Look, teachers, you know at the beginning of the school year what your plans are, why can't you include all that at the beginning, also, on the supply lists, instead of giving people an unreasonably short time to respond? And why do you insist we get all that crap at the end of the month, when many of use only get paid once/month? Teachers are great at whining they are "overworked and underpaid" but just a little consideration that students and parents do have other obligations other than to wait for you to throw stuff at us and make it our number one priority

Look, I do those silly da**ed projects. Ok, I know, how will the kid learn? Learn to do what---make posters? My dd is an honors student, my ds has adhd and has a full schedule already, I spend my days running around buying all that crap and making pretties to please the teacher. One of my kids got literally a 2-day notice to make a brain Out of what? oh, the usual answer....stuff you have around the house. Sorry, no unused brains around here! Geez! The kid is supposed to put his life on hold, run out with mommy to Hobby Lobby and buy stuff to "make a brain". He also got called in to work tonight, so, he's supposed to say sorry, I can't come in I was given 2 days to make a brain? I told him go on, don't worry about it. I took apart a Christmas ball, cut it in half, hand drawed some stuff on the outside and labeled various parts, then tore up an old tee shirt to cover it, glued t on, make "parts" for the inside using stuff I've collected over the years, look.....that took hours, and wha would he have learned, cutting, glue, paste, draw, I was hoping that stuff would end with HS, guess it never does. I figure as long as he knows the parts of the brain, can spell them, where they are located and what they do, he doesn't learn anything more by playing artsy fartsy half the night

Guess I'm a bad momma! I don't consider making that dam*ed thing any different than hemming his pants! Teachers, if you want your stupid projects taken seriously, then get real, and give a person enough time to do it

Originally Posted by germaine2626

First of all, even students in HS learn and retain information longer when they do "hands on activities otherwise, every Biology class in America would watch a movie about how to dissect a frog rather than to do it as a "hands on experience", ditto with chemistry and physics experiments.

I really, really doubt that your child had just "two days" notice about making the brain. I bet that if you investigate you will discover that the project was announced the first day of the unit, probably in writing, in the unit syllabus and most certainly during class time several times in advance.

It reminds me of situation that I observed last fall, when I was a substitute teacher who was a co-teacher in a history class. This was the day before Thanksgiving and the teacher reminded the class that a major paper was due the Tuesday after Thanksgiving. Several students immediately started to complain and said things like "I can't do the paper, I am going on vacation over Thanksgiving". "Hey, you never told us about this paper", "That's not fair we have less than a week to do the paper".

This teacher must have heard things like this before and immediately (but politely) started to list all of the times that the class had been notified of the paper. There were something like four different written notifications, starting six weeks in the past, and at least once a week, a verbal "heads up" concerning all upcoming major assignments. After class, the teacher remarked to me "I bet that a few students will go home and tell their parents that they were first told about the paper the Wednesday before Thanksgiving and it is due the Tuesday after Thanksgiving, and their parents will be upset with me!"

And, why did you, the Mom, do the project?

Originally Posted by MaryleeII

No, really, that's exactly the amount of time given. Students and parents were emailed details of the project, and that IS the first notice we received,. Why did I do it for him? Like I said, he didn't have time to pull it together in the time frame allowed, unless you expected him to give up his job for that night----ummmm, see, you aren't the only one working for a paycheck. Oh, BTW, dissecting a frog is usually done in class, not sent home for the kids/parents to do at home

By the very nature of the email, "emailed details of the project" strongly implied that the "basics" of the project was previously assigned and discussed in class. I truly believe that your child may not have been truthful when he said that he did not know about the assignment before two days before it was due. It is much more likely that it was mentioned in class several (and probably numerous times) in the days and weeks before the notice went out to the students two days before it was due. And why in the world would the parents get notice of a child's HS assignment?

In all of the HSs that I know, teachers are well aware that most students have after school sports & other afterschool extra curricular activities as well as most students having part time jobs plus a huge percentage of students have AP and honors classes with huge amounts (sometimes several hours) of daily reading or homework per class. Most teachers give a large amount of advance notice for any type of major project. Frankly, I think that you child "dropped the ball" (or actually lied to you) and knew about the assignment for days and never mentioned it (probably hoping that his mama would do it for him) or this was a very minor or optional assignment. Sheesh!

How is doing your HS age son's homework for him possibly helping him learn priorities, advance planning and time management skills? Are you planning to attend college with him and go to work with him, too?

[LiLShorty4lyfe]

I am appalled at that massive post. It probably deserves it's own thread as to not derail this one.

Thank you for all the posters that relayed their experience and direction. Someone asked me if I was sending a message to my child that her behavior is mimicking a teenager. Do you mind elaborating where in my OP you jumped to that assumption? I don't have any other children, and why on earth would any parent tell their child that's how teens act? I don't expect my teen to act that way,though I do expect her teenage years to be tough. Until then though, I do not plan on guiding that, condoning that or enabling that type of behavior. So, no.

I noticed many of you said to let her work independently and I do. Everything mentioned in OP is post completion. With that said, many of the responses are doable and gave me a new perspective on what defined "helping your child succeed." Thank you! I can certainly verify its done, and make sure the teacher knows that I am not checking for accuracy as much as I am simple completion.

[germaine2626]

Originally Posted by LiLShorty4lyfe

I am appalled at that massive post. It probably deserves it's own thread as to not derail this one. (snip).

I apologize for responding to the other poster, in the middle of the thread that you started, but I did not feel that I could ignore her comments.

[LiLShorty4lyfe]

No need for apology from the people responding... it's the mom who shocked me with her attitude towards schooling and projects.

[lkb0714]

Originally Posted by LiLShorty4lyfe

I am appalled at that massive post. It probably deserves it's own thread as to not derail this one.

Thank you for all the posters that relayed their experience and direction. Someone asked me if I was sending a message to my child that her behavior is mimicking a teenager. Do you mind elaborating where in my OP you jumped to that assumption? I don't have any other children, and why on earth would any parent tell their child that's how teens act? I don't expect my teen to act that way,though I do expect her teenage years to be tough. Until then though, I do not plan on guiding that, condoning that or enabling that type of behavior. So, no.

I noticed many of you said to let her work independently and I do. Everything mentioned in OP is post completion. With that said, many of the responses are doable and gave me a new perspective on what defined "helping your child succeed." Thank you! I can certainly verify its done, and make sure the teacher knows that I am not checking for accuracy as much as I am simple completion.

I think you misunderstood me and if I wasn't clear I apologize. It is very immature for children to be disrespectful as mature child are more thoughtful in how they approach others due to their more developed empathy. Even in teens, maturity is demonstrated through this, so I think you need to take a step back and stop thinking of, and treating a child who is immature as "mature for any age". It maybe reinforcing the disrespectful behavior.

[LiLShorty4lyfe]

Originally Posted by lkb0714

I think you misunderstood me and if I wasn't clear I apologize. It is very immature for children to be disrespectful as mature child are more thoughtful in how they approach others due to their more developed empathy. Even in teens, maturity is demonstrated through this, so I think you need to take a step back and stop thinking of, and treating a child who is immature as "mature for any age". It maybe reinforcing the disrespectful behavior.

And what I'm saying is, other than coming here to say she acts maturely (and that may have been the wrong term. She just has a strong vocabulary and tries to act like she's older) I in no other way said that i encourage it, or condone it. So not sure why the need for the clarity post. I agree with everyone saying that she is not actually mature, it's the matter of how she presents herself. But you're right too, that she can't be mature if she doesn't have a good control of her emotions.

[lkb0714]

Originally Posted by LiLShorty4lyfe

And what I'm saying is, other than coming here to say she acts maturely (and that may have been the wrong term. She just has a strong vocabulary and tries to act like she's older) I in no other way said that i encourage it, or condone it. So not sure why the need for the clarity post. I agree with everyone saying that she is not actually mature, it's the matter of how she presents herself. But you're right too, that she can't be mature if she doesn't have a good control of her emotions.

So perhaps work on not just the disrespect but the immature as well. They are likely part and parcel of the same issue, and even tied in with the frustrations with homework.

[nana053]

Originally Posted by MaryleeII

No, really, that's exactly the amount of time given. Students and parents were emailed details of the project, and that IS the first notice we received,. Why did I do it for him? Like I said, he didn't have time to pull it together in the time frame allowed, unless you expected him to give up his job for that night----ummmm, see, you aren't the only one working for a paycheck. Oh, BTW, dissecting a frog is usually done in class, not sent home for the kids/parents to do at home

That may have been the first notice parents received, but I bet it was not the first notice he received. By high school, parents don't get notice of these things, the kids do. I don't think I ever had notice of my son's or daughter's high school projects. It was up to them to get the projects done on their own.