My 18 yo moved out (smart, 15 yr old, natural, husband)
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Oh my god. The OP felt, rightly so, that the father's punishment was too extreme. My post TO HER was that the father was coming from the right place, and not to come down too hard on him. No where did I say he did the right thing. I said there are worse things that could happen and obviously, that's where dad's mind was at. In fact, I went on to say that we are not perfect parents and do not make perfect decisions.
So where does, "Oh please, kids drink, kids party sometime, get over it!" come into that conversation?? The options are NOT to do nothing or go to the extreme, but sorry, "kids drink, get over it" has no place in a conversation about a 15 year old being uncontrollably drunk.
Hopefully, the OP is not the brick wall that this conversation is.
I agree that he thought he was doing the right thing. The problem is there is no reasoning with a drunk teenager so taking her to the police so they could talk to her doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You can't reason with someone who is three sheets to the wind. Dh of all people should understand this. It took him 10 weeks to sober up after we separated 6 years ago. I was shocked to learn that the brain never returns to a normal state if you drink frequently enough even though you blow zero. I'm not kidding. It took 10 weeks before I felt like I was talking to an adult.
That dd feels entitled to drink at 15 bothers me. She doesn't need to be pickling brain cells like this.
I agree. The fact she still thinks that it's her right to get drunk at parties is very scary. She thinks it's the end of her life because she can't drink at Sadies this year, homecoming her senior year and her prom. I'm very bothered by the fact she thinks drinking is the only way to have fun. She has no idea how much trouble she could find herself in. She thinks she's safe because she goes to parties with friends and has a ride home prearranged (her best friend's sister who was quite the little drinker herself in high school picks them up) but a lot can happen when you're too drunk to respond well. It's this idea she has the right to drink that is really bothering me. I still would have preferred to handle this by just grounding her from parties but of course that would ruin her life too.... I'd like the tears to stop. Both hers and mine right now.
Is this the one who skipped a couple of grades? Could this be related to her feeling out of place with the older kids? Maybe she wants to do what they do to fit in. Binge drinking type parties get more common the closer you get to 18.
Also, it sounds like there is a culture of underage drinking where you live. Do a whole lot of teens at her school drink regularly?
ETA: it just clicked that she's a cheerleader. Is this a jock culture/popular kid thing? The football team usually has some kind of socialized drinking component.
Hello? That's what punishment is. Tell her she gets to start earning back these things by not being a 15 year old drunk.
Seriously, Mom, you need to start being more of a parent and less of a worry wart.
Because, so far everything seems to be just peachy!
"Kids will be kids" is a cop out and you know it. My hunch is that the 15 year old has heard that from you before. I'm not naïve enough to think my kids won't drink in the coming years. I did when I was in high school. But there will be consequences and that's on them, not me.
She won't be able to earn them back. The court and the school will take them away. It's the fact she can't earn them back that is the problem. If it was you cannot cheer or drive until ___________ I'd be fine with that except the _____________ is she turns 18 and high school is over. She wants to try for a competitive cheer scholarship to college. Kind of hard to do if they won't let you cheer in high school.
If this goes badly, and she loses everything she cares about, she will no longer care what happens. I don't see how that is a good thing. I'm hoping the court offers her the ability to earn having her record expunged. I do want there to be consequences but some are worse than others. Unfortunately, once dh took her to the police, the consequences were taken out of our hands and put into the hands of the court.
She sees this as inherently unfair because so many kids drink and DON'T get turned in by their parents and lose everything they care about as a result. If you think she's the only cheerleader drinking, you're mistaken. The others however get to continue to cheer because their parents handled this at home not by dragging their child down to the police station.
Is this the one who skipped a couple of grades? Could this be related to her feeling out of place with the older kids? Maybe she wants to do what they do to fit in. Binge drinking type parties get more common the closer you get to 18.
Also, it sounds like there is a culture of underage drinking where you live. Do a whole lot of teens at her school drink regularly?
Yes, this is the one who has skipped two grades. Unfortunately, there is no shortage of parties and the kids drink at parties. Just drinking at parties I could deal with. Getting drunk is another matter. I put drinking into the kids will be kids category. Getting drunk goes into a different category.
Ivory you are starting to sound far too sympathetic towards your 15 yr old's woes. They are her's to own. If she can't cheer (and I'm not sure how the school would have access to any information about her transgression), then she can look for scholarships based on her grades.
She SHOULD lose her driving privileges, especially since she she seems to have no remorse about drinking. Your husband is starting to sound like the adult with the clearest vision of how serious this all was.
I agree. The fact she still thinks that it's her right to get drunk at parties is very scary. She thinks it's the end of her life because she can't drink at Sadies this year, homecoming her senior year and her prom. I'm very bothered by the fact she thinks drinking is the only way to have fun. She has no idea how much trouble she could find herself in. She thinks she's safe because she goes to parties with friends and has a ride home prearranged (her best friend's sister who was quite the little drinker herself in high school picks them up) but a lot can happen when you're too drunk to respond well. It's this idea she has the right to drink that is really bothering me. I still would have preferred to handle this by just grounding her from parties but of course that would ruin her life too.... I'd like the tears to stop. Both hers and mine right now.
I am sorry you are going through this difficult time, but a child who believes that, at 15, "it's the end of her life" because she can't drink at parties has no business getting a driver's license. Whether or not she is allowed to by the court, that attitude proves that she is not respectful of the law and thinks it does not apply to her. If it was my child, concern about her ability to drive would be at the very bottom of my list.
Last edited by raindrop101; 11-05-2013 at 04:17 PM..
Ivory you are starting to sound far too sympathetic towards your 15 yr old's woes. They are her's to own. If she can't cheer (and I'm not sure how the school would have access to any information about her transgression), then she can look for scholarships based on her grades.
She SHOULD lose her driving privileges, especially since she she seems to have no remorse about drinking. Your husband is starting to sound like the adult with the clearest vision of how serious this all was.
My concern is that if she loses the things she enjoys doing sober, what's left? I don't want to see her lose cheering (the school will be contacted as her grades will have to be reported to the court before the hearing) and getting her license has been a big carrot plus there's the inability to get a job because of a record. She really wants to get a job when she turns 16. I don't think these punishments fit the crime. I do think there should be serious consequences. I just don't think taking away the things she enjoys sober are it.
Cheering isn't related to drinking. Neither is driving at the moment. In fact one of the things she prides herself on is having a designated driver to give her a ride home from a party. You cannot conclude from the fact she drinks that she will drink and drive. She's grown up watching her father hand me the keys because he's had one and I've had none. It's one thing to lose things related to drinking, like being able to go to parties. That would be, IMO, a logical consequence here. Losing cheering though? Cheering has nothing to do with drinking and she never would have realized she was risking cheering. I didn't realize this either. I assume she's out of the NHS too once the school finds out so there goes graduating with that distinction. If this goes down that way, I'll be surprised if we can keep her in school. The consequences aren't natural to the offense. They're contrived and serve only to make her humiliation public. She won't be able to get a job, a license, cheer, graduate as a member of NHS or be on the homecoming court. None of this has anything to do with drinking. So what is taking it away teaching her? Now telling her she can't go to parties because of her drinking is another matter.
I think they're taking away the wrong things. I think what they are taking away are the things that will help her. What does she have to lose when you take everything she cares about away? It is never a good thing to leave someone hopeless because hopeless people don't care about consequences because they've already lost what they care about. She got drunk at a party so let's take everything she cares about away does not sound remotely logical to me. She's a kid who needs to know there is a way out of this mess. I'm not getting the throw the book at her mentality here at all. Yes, there should be consequences but they should be logical consequences not the things she enjoys doing sober. They should be things designed to make sure she doesn't drink, like not being able to go to parties and getting into counseling. She's sober when she cheers. Why take that?
She has enough credits to graduate in January so I guess she can just not do her senior year. Skip graduation, the prom, homecoming, the works. Skip being able to be a senior and just move to CC in the fall. I'm sorry but yes I think this is too high a price for the crime. Leaving her nothing does nothing to help her. This isn't about inflicting the most pain possible. It's about helping her.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 11-05-2013 at 04:25 PM..
My concern is that if she loses the things she enjoys doing sober, what's left? I don't want to see her lose cheering (the school will be contacted as her grades will have to be reported to the court before the hearing) and getting her license has been a big carrot plus there's the inability to get a job because of a record. I don't think these punishments fit the crime. I do think there should be serious consequences. I just don't think taking away the things she enjoys sober are it.
I wasn't going to respond but now I feel I must...
Your daughter committed a CRIME. She was ARRESTED for that CRIME. How is the consequences of committing a crime unacceptable?!
She drank underage ...... that's ILLEGAL. Anyway you slice it. What about when she drinks and drives drunk (cause that's NOT THAT FAR FROM POSSIBLE ... more LIKELY than anything) and HITS AND KILLS SOMEONE?!
Oh my good god ... you are enabling this girl and her sister ...
I am just sorry for her that her parents appear to agree with her that her life and reason for living are gone if she cannot do XXX.
What if she had an accident and lost a leg or tore some muscles or got really sick and had to drop cheerleading entirely? There is way more to life and life goes on. This is the lesson that parents should teach. **** happens in life and we go on.
There is a little boy who lost half his brain to an accident. He is wheelchair bound and cannot talk, walk, eat, swallow, etc. His parents could say life is over and we will give up but instead they have taken his new life and are working to make the absolute best out of it. Somehow you need to understand this concept and be ready to teach it to your daughter.
The problem you have with the 15 year old is that, by your husband taking her to the police and having her arrested, you have just outsourced parenting decisions and consequences to the courts and to school policies. You now get all the blame but no real ability to manage the situation or to mitigate the consequences no matter how much her future behavior changes. And the 15 year old doesn't really have much incentive to toe the line as she has already been hit with the 50 pound sledgehammer. So, to be honest, I think you are looking at three not very fun years until she is old enough to go her own way. The best advice I can give is that you are going to need to make this charge go away somehow before all those negative consequences kick in and so that you can get some flexibility back into how you manage the relationship.
As regards the 18 year old and having read through the thread, I still don't really understand what motivated her to move out. Do you? Have you been able to have a conversation with her to get some understanding? Have you tried to put yourself in her shoes rather than your own? As parents we always think we know what is best for our kids. But sometimes we need to accept that they have their own ideas and working with them is more effective than trying to tell them what to do. My daughter is 26 and I still have to bite my tongue. But bite it I do.
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