Does having children expand your intellect... or limit it?

[cynwldkat]

Originally Posted by AlleyTD

Well said!

I never had a maternal instinct and my plan was to not have children. Well, the big guy in the sky had other plans and at the young age of 39 I became pregnant with my little oops And OMG! Did life take on a whole new meaning. So much so, that at the young age of age of 41 I had child number two.
And this time we concieved naturally and ON purpose - unlike my first precious gift.

Having lived without children for a long time and then getting them unexpectedly I think I've seen both sides of the child coin. I traveled extensively before my children were born and had many great life experiences. However, corny as it sounds - the meaning of life - is so much clearer now then Pre-kids. I mean, ah ... children aren't for everyone ... but, if you are lucky enough and blessed with one - your eyes, heart and mind open in a way you can never imagine. It's impossible to explain, unless you have children.

The biggest thing you lose when you have children is NOT intellect ... its freedom. But the rewards ... well they can not be measured by a book, a class, a play, a trip, another degree or anything. The reward is the stuff rainbows are made of - beautiful and inexplicable unless you experience it first hand.

Great post! You said most of what I have been thinking while reading this thread and posts and you said it very well.

[belovenow]

Originally Posted by goodtype

My wife and I do not have children and feel it has been to our advantage. As we do interesting things during the evening and weekends we are always saying to each other that if we had children we would be bored. The type of intellectual, cultural and educational things we do in our free time just would not be possible if we had children.

My brother has kids and he has turned out completely different as a result. All his time is devoted to the kids. He spends countless hours driving them to activities, sitting in the stands watching them play sports, yelling at them to finish their homework, and talking about the kids endlessly with his wife. It seems like every waking hour is devoted to either his kids or his job. He has no time for reading, intellectual or cultural pursuits, or activities to expand his mind.

It seems like my wife's family members who are parents are exactly the same. I feel that having kids now days limit you as a person intellectually. Agree or disagree?

I anticipate reading a lot of replies expressing opinions to the contrary of what you've stated because this is a parenting forum visited primarily by parents :-)

I think you either don't understand what parenting is all about, or may have defined what you have seen within bounds that can make you feel better about your lifestyle or which compares you favorably to your brother. I appreciate your intellectual inquiry about the experience, but in any case it's probably best you haven't had children if you think you would be bored with them and unable to enjoy new and different and intellectual experiences.

Taking care of children requires a lot of your time. The time you spend when they are infants isn't going to be all that intellectually stimulating compared to the time you spend once they learn to communicate and are mobile, that much is a given. However during that limited time-period most parents mature emotionally instead of intellectually. Without children I can tell you from personal experience I was more of a selfish and impatient person and I truly never appreciated my parents as much as I do now. The love I immediately felt for my children when they were first born is greater than any I felt before and I recognize now that I would never have known what I was missing emotionally, nor really opened my heart up to another being in the same way. Although I was very close to my wife, the love was definitely different... although I loved my parents and family members, the love was different... although I loved my pets growing up, that was different as well. Post-children I feel like I have more love to give not only to them but to anyone... indeed I feel like I finally grew up emotionally. Once you have children if you do, then perhaps you'll understand this type of emotional maturity... until then I cannot guarantee you won't... but I'm just skeptical. Unless you spend a significant amount of time bonding with someone else's children (nieces or nephews or kids you adopt or decide to mentor in some way), I just don't see it happening. Unless you develop an attachment to someone who will be a dependant of yours for a long time I just don't think you'll ever have to grow to the next stage emotionally because functionally you won't have to.

Now regarding taking care of children after the toddler stage... well I don't think it's all that bleak to at least some of us parents. You painted a picture which makes it seem like parents are completely missing out on intellectual pursuits because of the time they spend with their children. I have always found myself bored at art museums, and likewise wine-tasting or doing other "cultural things" of similar nature. Sure I spent time doing those things, just like going to community or broadway theatre or listening to orchestras play classical music. I enjoyed them at first (seriously, I did) but really I think I had my fill after a few times and there's no way I could look forward to a lifetime of them night after night. Indeed I'm well-aquainted with many couples who would be shocked to hear me make such a declaration to them, but sitting down to read a stuffy "classic" work of literature is about as exciting to me as cleaning my bathtub. I had to do it in school and likewise engaged in ridiculous written and oral debate about the authors ad nauseum. It has never "done it" for me and indeed even with my multiple college degrees, higher education for me was never about stuffy intellectual pursuits as much as it was about learning what I could about the world in which we live in today, how I could directly affect it, and what I could expect.

All that said - of course with children you can and should still do intellectual things with them. Just as my parents did for me, I fully expect to expose my children to cultural and intellectual experiences; any and all I can identify appropriate for whatever age they happen to be at. There's no reason not to. There's no rule-book issued with children that states you cannot take them to museums, libraries, to the theatre, etc... it's your choice. You can raise them however you wish.

It sounds like your brother has chosen not to focus upon what you consider cultural or intellectual pursuits but I suspect it is a preference he and his wife have and not a handicap the children have thrust upon their lives. It does sound like your bother spends a significant portion of his days taking care of and watching over his children and rather than look down upon that I would hope you could expand your mind to realize that it is a great thing, an investment in their future, and he probably is having a satisfying time doing it. Seeing your son or daughter do something well really does bring joy into your heart... If he's focusing upon sports with his children, I guarantee there's a reason for it... not every parent makes that same choice.

Lastly, I'll state that being a parent can be exhausting both emotionally and physically. It really isn't for everyone. There's people out there who are just too selfish to ever be good parents and likewise there are people just missing the maternal or paternal instincts necessary to do right by any children they have. Indeed, depending upon your children you might find yourself to varying degrees engaging in things repetitively and also making significant sacrifices of time. Lastly you definitely won't be able to pursue everything you've ever wanted at the moment you wish because family consideration will need to take precedence to your desires. Will this make you less intellectual or less able to be all that you can be if you become a parent? I definitely don't think so. If anything it'll force you to become more creative and efficient in problem-solving because having children will definitely challenge you.

[sun queen]

To be perfectly honest I don't think becoming a parent made me smarter. In fact I was a stay at home mom for a while and I think I became intellectually challenged for a while. I spent all of my time changing diapers and talking baby talk. The most serious reading I did at that time was Mother Goose. I just did not have time to do anything to expand my intellect. I think parenting is rewarding and it stimulates personal growth. U will certainly find out what u r made of.

[beth ann]

Many posters have made some wondeful points about having children.

From an intellectual growth pov, I can honestly say that being exposed to (again) American History, Earth Science, Literature, etc. through our three children's school curriculi has been very much a "learning" expereince for us, as parents.

Since we live in a Wash, DC suburb, we have a plethora of museums, cultural activities, etc which we take full advantage of as a family.

My 8 yo just masterd a version of Fur Elise on the piano and she and I have mother/daugher time at the National Gallery of Art to see some of her favorites which include Monet, Renoir and VanGough.

My 6th grade son just saw Don Giovanni at the Kennedy Center for a class field trip. Of course, I chaperoned....

Supreme Court Justice Scalia's grandson is in his class, as well as a few Ambassador's children. Senator Santorum (PA) boys attend his school, as well.

Believe me, there is no lack of intellectual or cultural experiences since we've had children..... We even have time to fit in football, ballet, soccer etc for balance.

[goodtype]

As the orginal poster, I can say I am shocked such a large number of people have admitted that having children has limited their intellectual development at least somewhat. About 40%. I expected total political correctness on this board and everyone would disagree with me.

[gentlearts]

So, you can read uninterrupted, and go to a museum uninterrupted, and go to a concert without multiple trips to the bathroom. Nobody spills things on your floors, and nobody interrrupts your thought process?
I bet you sort of lose your ability to roll with the punches with a lifestyle like that, but I guess I wouldn't mind trying it for awhile.
I'm thinking that intellectual and cultural pursuits don't compare with the constantly amazing roller coaster ride of having kids.

[AlleyTD]

Originally Posted by goodtype

As the orginal poster, I can say I am shocked such a large number of people have admitted that having children has limited their intellectual development at least somewhat. About 40%. I expected total political correctness on this board and everyone would disagree with me.

goodtype,

I have to wonder if you really "got/understood" the deeper sentiment of many posters.
I don’t think anybody cares about political correctness, but I also think the 40% you speak of said much more than you comprehended. I certainly did not agree with you. Not even a little bit.

What you are calling "intellectual development" greatly pales in comparison to the greater meaning of "LIFE Development." That is the point I think many of us were making. There is no limit to your intellect once you have children. Those who's intellect becomes limited would of likely become that way with age, REGARDLESS of the addition of children. The form of intellectual challenges and your perception of true intellect is what changes along with your freedom level - as I stated earlier.

If you are someone who is a seeker of knowledge there is NO WAY your intellect will become limited with the addition of a child. In fact NOTHING could be further from the truth. The true intellectual will expand like a flower and so does the child you watch grow.
You cannot compare intellect in such simplistic terms (with or without) children. It's much deeper than that.

It's like trying to compare the smell of an orange potion in a fancy aromatherapy shop, to the actual eating of the delicious fruit; or comparing bungee jumping to parachuting out of a plane from 15,000 feet; or going to the symphony versus writing a symphony.

Oranges smell good, but would much rather eat one.
Bungee jumping is certainly fun, but pales in comparison to parachuting.
Seeing and listening to a great symphony is certainly intellectually stimulating … but writing a one, well … that’s just beyond amazing.

Your question really is a Philosophical one more than anything and like all Philosophical debates there is no concrete answer. There is only what becomes true for the individual. I’m afraid you’ll have to jump out of the plane if you really what to know what it’s like to fly.
You don’t have to jump though if you really don’t want to, nor should you.

Parenting is not for the faint of heart … and neither is jumping out of a plane, but ..... Wooooo eeee .... WHAT a ride!

[mommabear2]

Originally Posted by goodtype

As the orginal poster, I can say I am shocked such a large number of people have admitted that having children has limited their intellectual development at least somewhat. About 40%. I expected total political correctness on this board and everyone would disagree with me.

Parents are my favorite people goodtype and throughout my life the smartest people I know have always been parents. They don't have time to sit and read War and Peace. We have better things to do. If you read the post that all these parents wrote to you, you'd see that most of these parents know something you don't. I'm sure you hate that. But it's okay - you probably have more time to read Tolstoy...