Using a switch on kids

[pamelaboop]

Originally Posted by ayannaaaliyah

Well I'll tell you and I will tell any CPS worker, as I've told them in the past, if my child were to EVER EVER disrespect me or do anything to warrant a spanking/whipping or whatever you choose to call it. I WILL spank my child and you are right, more than likely a switch will leave a whep mark on her legs/buttocks because she is light skinned - you or nobody else will tell me how nor when to discipline my child. As I stated before there is a difference in child abuse and discipline; and IMO the government has gone to far, which is the reason that many children have absolutely no respect for authority. The schools are in dissarray, the homes are in disarray, the teachers have no control, parents have no control and these children have NO FEAR of anything. Why? Because they know that no one can touch them, there is ABSOLUTELY NO DISCIPLINE in place. While it is true that some have mental illnesses, but that's an entirely different thread.

Principles/Teachers/Clergy/Police = no power to the minds of these children. Put your hands on them, they scream CHILD ABUSE.

Yes CPS is needed for those parents who choose to lock their children in cages; the parent that starves their children; the parent that throws little Bobby around smacking him in the face; the parent who throws their child in the dryer; the parent that sexually abuses his/her child; the parent that is an addicted drug addict neglecting his/her children; the parent that leaves his/her child unattended; the parent that leaves his/her child in a sweltering hot car; the parent that doesn't make sure that his/her child gets an education, not a parent that chooses to use a switch/belt/hand as a menas of discipline for a disrespectful child.

BTW: I've dealt with CPS as I worked as a paralegal in family law. So I've had my many conversations with CPS workers (we called them DCFS).

Everyone has their own opinion about abuse and spankings etc. There are people who feel that is a viable form of discipline and there are others that do not. There will always be someone who may spank their child and the child will turn out fine and have no problems. There are people who do not spank their children and they turn out fine also.

As for what my experiences have been professionally, if there is a mark then some judges consider that abuse (in my area at least). I personally have never removed a child for parents leaving a mark on a child so far but I have known of cases where the family has had to go to counseling or have some parenting classes or such things as that.

Maybe some areas are different...I can only share what I have seen.

We also have a Youth Services Officer that deal with unruly children. This is especially good for children that are not obeying their parents. A CPS worker works with this family, mainly the child, to try to make them behave in more appropriate ways. In the last year I have only had one teenage boy who has not improved. They probably have this in other state's as well.

As for the statement that no one will tell parents how to discipline a child, so far if a Judge court orders something then it is done unless an appeals court changes that. You would know that more than I since you are a paralegal. I have seen Judge's order families not to use physical discipline and if a child is placed in foster care then the foster parent is not permitted to use physical discipline.

[ayannaaaliyah]

Originally Posted by pamelaboop

Everyone has their own opinion about abuse and spankings etc. There are people who feel that is a viable form of discipline and there are others that do not. There will always be someone who may spank their child and the child will turn out fine and have no problems. There are people who do not spank their children and they turn out fine also.

As for what my experiences have been professionally, if there is a mark then some judges consider that abuse (in my area at least). I personally have never removed a child for parents leaving a mark on a child so far but I have known of cases where the family has had to go to counseling or have some parenting classes or such things as that.

Maybe some areas are different...I can only share what I have seen.

We also have a Youth Services Officer that deal with unruly children. This is especially good for children that are not obeying their parents. A CPS worker works with this family, mainly the child, to try to make them behave in more appropriate ways. In the last year I have only had one teenage boy who has not improved. They probably have this in other state's as well.

As for the statement that no one will tell parents how to discipline a child, so far if a Judge court orders something then it is done unless an appeals court changes that. You would know that more than I since you are a paralegal. I have seen Judge's order families not to use physical discipline and if a child is placed in foster care then the foster parent is not permitted to use physical discipline.

It's good to know that you are one CPS worker that understands the difference between discipline and child abuse

Yes they had Youth Services Officers but they weren't much of a help in many instances because as you know, there isn't a lot in the budget to give these children what they need, when they need it. Not to mention many of these officers were merely collecting a check, most didn't have children, and many of them came from different backgrounds and in some instances had no understanding the culture in which they were dealing.

At the end of the day however, IMHO when they removed the ability of principals/teachers, etc. to paddle children in school - all h*ll broke loose

[pamelaboop]

Originally Posted by djacques

Yes, but a judge obviously isn't going to sign a petition if you don't bring him one!



I'm sure they need a ton of convincing. CPS gets its budget fixed according to how many kids are being placed, and federal money according to how soon they are adopted out. That's how the Wenatchee, Washington sex abuse fiasco came about--it was just a racket to shake the state down for money, from start to finish.



Well, that's why CPS is about as popular as the bubonic plague.



So you don't make people grovel and you don't take kids unnecessarily. Well then take me through a hypothetical; you get sent out, and a mother has spanked her child with a switch. Let's say the child is 9 and was spanked for lying about homework. Let's say they have red marks on the backside and upper legs and a dime-size bruise on the thigh from struggling. The mother admits she spanked the kid. What do you do?

If I got that case I would go out and talk to both the parent and the child. I would tell my supervisor about what the parents stated she did. I would take pictures of the child's bruises ( or the child's really dirty home if that is the case). There might be a possibility that there would be a removal but the factors involved would determine that. Such as was the mother very angry or drinking. More than likely if there was bruises only from physical discipline then we would offer some parenting assistance. My state does not have any problem with physical discipline but a parent is not permitted to leave a bruise or mark. A parent could tell me that they spank their child on the bottom for something but as long as they do not leave marks then that would not be a referral. Also I would talk to the child about their behaviors (if problematic such as unruly) and assure them that they have to obey their mother/father etc. Marks or bruises left from physical discipline is where CPS would have to remove or more than likely offer services to the family ( such as the counseling). I never tell my families that they can not use physical discipline...just that they can not leave marks or bruises.

[Earniefan]

I know a couple who live very much according to the Bible. In the Bible it directs us to use a switch for discipline of children. I however have never and will never do this. But this could be her basis for this.

[djacques]

Originally Posted by Earniefan

I know a couple who live very much according to the Bible. In the Bible it directs us to use a switch for discipline of children. I however have never and will never do this. But this could be her basis for this.

I don't give much of a hoot what the Bible says about anything, but I believe in spanking because I was spanked and know from experience that it works.

[Earniefan]

That rock story one of you told made me think of a story that Marty Robbins told once at his horse demonstration. He was telling the parents of a small child in the crowd to kindly take them out so that the rest of us would not be disturbed and went on to tell this story on discipline. He said he had a pile of rocks delivered and when one of his children would do something wrong they had to go move the pile a certain distance, maybe half the pile sometimes or half way across the place instead of all the way to the corner of the property, but said that it worked wonders. Someone else told me of having their children dig a trench of a certain length and depth for punishment. Both were told to be very affective. When my little brother lived with us for awhile I made him clean our neighbors pens that he had used for his hounds. He had to use a bar to get alot of it up and then scoop them out and spray them clean. He was a very good kid for quite awhile after that. Not only does this form of punishment make it a lasting memory for them it also gets them some exercise in the process.

[Dolfan]

Originally Posted by Earniefan

I know a couple who live very much according to the Bible. In the Bible it directs us to use a switch for discipline of children. I however have never and will never do this. But this could be her basis for this.

The Bible does not condone child abuse. Some people take verses out of context and misinterpret them.

[djacques]

Originally Posted by Dolfan

The Bible does not condone child abuse. Some people take verses out of context and misinterpret them.

The Bible condones what some people would call child abuse, and what others would call discipline. It does condone corporal punishment, or at least some verses do. I'm an atheist and couldn't care less what it says, but that is, in fact, what it says.

[Sam I Am]

Due to the number of harsh words spoken in this thread, I'm going to shut it down...it's been reported from days ago and I'm only sorry it wasn't reported earlier.

Please, everyone, refer to the terms of service. Stating your opinion is one thing, and even stating it strongly - but calling people stupid and ignorant is not acceptable on CD. At all.