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Old 11-02-2011, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,312 posts, read 41,896,834 times
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Originally Posted by malamute View Post
They say as many as 40% of us are colonized by MRSA -- and we wouldn't even know it. Patients are given MRSA either from themselves, the hospital staff especially in invasive procedures, hospital visitors. Of course being colonized by MRSA or any resistant bacteria makes it worse if we do become infected since that is what will infect us.

MRSA is everywhere, it was actually developed by the over use of antibiotics and more resistant strains are being developed all the time.

We're moving into a post-antibiotic age. A very healthy and active immune system is going to be the best defense. Maybe exposure to MRSA will actually benefit those who are healthy when first acquainted with those strains so that some immunity to those strains is built.
You do not develop immunity to staph in the sense that you do to some other infections. Even before MRSA there were people who had problems with recurrent boils due to staph.

MRSA is not really different from nonresistant strains in its ability to cause sickness. It is, however, more difficult to treat when it does.
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,312 posts, read 41,896,834 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Yes - but keep in mind it was the "educated" who built these resistant strains of bacteria. MRSA, VRE and the others are the result of physicians over-prescribing antibiotics and not understanding the evolutionary process too well themselves.

Hospitals filled with "educated" working in them became the very hotbeds for these organisms. "Educated" hospital employees including physicians are still the very common source for the nosocomial infections.
I do not think that the physicians dealing with nosocomial infections fail to understand the processes by which antibiotic resistance develops. MRSA and VRE present greater problems in treatment, but they are neither the first nor the only bacteria to develop resistance.

Yes, there was in the past a more cavalier attitude toward prescribing antibiotics, usually empirically for respiratory infections, but patient demand played a part in that, too. Ask the next doc you see how difficult it is to explain to some patients that antibiotics do not cure colds. That gets back to the theme of this post: that many people do not understand the basics of infectious disease. Many antibiotics were prescribed because the patient would shop for a doctor who would provide the prescription.

Even appropriate use of antibiotics puts pressure on bacteria to develop resistance. The alternative is to not use antibiotics at all. Then you have people dying from treatable infections.

It is possible to slow down the development of resistance by limiting the use of antibiotics, but it is important to limit not only human use but use in animals.

Control of infectious diseases, including but not limited to MRSA, is complex. There is far more involved than just personnel passing infections to patients.

http://www.reproline.jhu.edu/english..._Isolation.pdf

The solution is to
  • Have a clear indication for the use of the antibiotic. Do not treat viral illnesses with an antibiotic.
  • Use the proper antibiotic. This may mean culturing the site of the infection and testing various antibiotics against the bacteria that are found.
  • If an antibiotic is prescribed, take it exactly as directed. Finish it even if you feel better.
  • Do not save antibiotics for use the next time you feel ill and do not share them with others.
We need antibiotics. Preventing infections in the health care setting is a high priority for hospitals and doctors, but patients need to help, too.
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,312 posts, read 41,896,834 times
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Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
Years ago on TV there was a well-known doctor who made the rounds on all the talk shows. (Sad to say his name escapes me.) Very common sense kind of man who was very popular. He used to give out advice. He always said that when a doctor walks into the room to examine you the first thing you should say is, "Glad to meet you. Please wash your filthy hands."
The wise doctor washes his hands twice: before examining the patient to protect the patient, then after to protect himself.

Today, the "wash" may be with a hand sanitizer. That is just as effective.
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Old 11-05-2011, 10:07 AM
 
47,525 posts, read 70,146,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
You do not develop immunity to staph in the sense that you do to some other infections. Even before MRSA there were people who had problems with recurrent boils due to staph.

MRSA is not really different from nonresistant strains in its ability to cause sickness. It is, however, more difficult to treat when it does.
You do have immunity against staph when you can be colonized with it but don't become ill from it - a lot of people have staph that can be pathogenic on their skins right now but don't even know it. That's why some people never get boils but it's not because they never met the bacteria that cause them. If they do get an occasional boil they rid themselves of it without antibiotics.

And when people have no immune system left, everything becomes a pathogen.
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Old 11-05-2011, 10:15 AM
 
47,525 posts, read 70,146,589 times
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Originally Posted by Strel View Post
That's way beyond the problem I experience. These people literally don't understand what germs are or even that they exist.

I'm not worried about MRSA so much as Salmonella.
Yes, salmonella is more a risk to myself but a lot of that is because we trust the food system too much.

I also worry more about the tuberculosis mycobacteria -- especially the resistant form because it was once almost wiped out from the USA but now is increasing and spreading.

I can't always avoid closed air spaces with recycled air. As long as I can have fresh air, I don't worry even when in foreign countries where it's endemic.
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Old 11-05-2011, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,312 posts, read 41,896,834 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
You do have immunity against staph when you can be colonized with it but don't become ill from it - a lot of people have staph that can be pathogenic on their skins right now but don't even know it. That's why some people never get boils but it's not because they never met the bacteria that cause them. If they do get an occasional boil they rid themselves of it without antibiotics.

And when people have no immune system left, everything becomes a pathogen.
To me, "immunity" implies that you cannot even be colonized with the organism.

So being colonized but not sick due to MRSA does not mean you are immune to it. If you are colonized and then have a major break in the skin, such as a surgical procedure, then you can get sick.

And, yes, if something damages the immune system, such as diabetes or chemo for cancer, then people can get sick from just about any infectious organism.

Fortunately for us, most skin infections will get better with plain soap and water and a protective bandage. Boils are skin abscesses. They frequently will get better with just drainage of the boil, whether it is caused by MRSA or a non resistant strain of staph. But it is best not to try to drain boils yourself. The only way to know whether MRSA is involved is to culture for it.
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Old 11-05-2011, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,295 posts, read 121,600,260 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Yes, salmonella is more a risk to myself but a lot of that is because we trust the food system too much.

I also worry more about the tuberculosis mycobacteria -- especially the resistant form because it was once almost wiped out from the USA but now is increasing and spreading.

I can't always avoid closed air spaces with recycled air. As long as I can have fresh air, I don't worry even when in foreign countries where it's endemic.
The "fresh air" treatment for tuberculosis is not foolproof. That was the theory behind the TB sanitariums of the early days of the 20th century. Many hospitals in metro Denver got their start as tb sans. Lutheran Medical Center, where I once worked, had a tent from the old sanitarium still standing on its grounds as a historical marker.

http://exempla.org/body.cfm?id=219
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