Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Very Interesting conversation here; I felt compelled to respond. I am by birth a "boomer" prophet (circa 1957). It is quite true that I share more in common intellectually and emotionally with my 25 year old son, then my 2 older children.
However, (2) Two overall intellectual concepts however don’t seem to resonate with me on this issue.
Firstly, I have always considered myself a pragmatic-existentialist (there’s a mouthful). A bit jaded, but still responsible for everything since the Korean War.
Secondly, “If I do the same things I did yesterday, make the same decisions, how will I grow, how will I change?
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Hmmmmmm.....[/SIZE]
Capitol Records refused to release "Please Please Me" and "From Me to You" do to their suggestive content. They also took a stern and disapproving stance on the Beatle's "moptops".
Wrong. Business decisions and screwy contracts approved by Brian Epstein. Who didn't know what he was doing.
Do not make me follow you around correcting your Beatles info, GOAT.
Wrong. Business decisions and screwy contracts approved by Brian Epstein. Who didn't know what he was doing.
Do not make me follow you around correcting your Beatles info, GOAT.
lol, I'll take your word for it over the other info that is out there. Regardless, the Beatles weren't exactly embraced by a lot of "parents" out there.
lol, I'll take your word for it over the other info that is out there. Regardless, the Beatles weren't exactly embraced by a lot of "parents" out there.
My dad was the cool dad who'd sit and rap about "Norwegian Wood" with his hippie son-in-law.
Ah, The Beatles. A very important moment in the counterculture movement and probably a much less divisive topic than Vietnam. If we want to think about the ethos of the Boomer/counterculture rebellion, what better group to study than the Beatles.
There was most definitely a generational divide with the Beatles and let's not forget Elvis' gyrating hips and rock and roll in general. Who can forget the stodgy guy in glasses breaking a record declaring that "rock and roll is a fad that will never catch on"?
When the Beatlemania was reaching a fever pitch in England, the US establishment was still fighting back against it. Capitol Records refused to release "Please Please Me" and "From Me to You" do to their suggestive content. They also took a stern and disapproving stance on the Beatle's "moptops". Even when they started releasing songs, they were very carefully chosen and the US LP's were not the same as the ones released in Britain. When the Beatles appeared on Ed Sullivan, parents were rather aghast and reviewers claimed "they couldn't carry a tune across the Atlantic."
If we are going on the current of counterculture unification bringing together disparate groups defining a generation, there was probably no larger moment than when the Beatles met Bob Dylan, who introduced them to marijuana in a NYC hotel room.
Dylan epitomized the "college kids with artistic or intellectual leanings, a dawning political and social idealism, and a mildly bohemian style". This contrasted with the Beatles who epitomized "veritable teenyboppers—kids in high school or grade school whose lives were totally wrapped up in the commercialized popular culture of television, radio, pop records, fan magazines, and teen fashion. They were seen as idolaters, not idealists."
Within 6 months the Beatles began to change and Lennon started to borrow inspiration from Dylan. Within a year Dylan had shaken his folk image. The rock and folk crowds were coming together and the Beatles audience was growing up. The Beatles evolved with their "teenybopper" fans right into the counterculture movement. Who can forget the outrage among the older generation when Lennon declared in an interview, "Christianity will go. It will vanish and shrink. I needn't argue about that; I'm right and I will be proved right. We're more popular than Jesus now; I don't know which will go first, rock 'n' roll or Christianity."
I'm sure your parents were outraged and disgusted. You good counterculture Boomers knew what he really meant.
Oh yeah. My dad was outraged. He called John Lennon an arrogant snot after that "christianity" remark, lol. But, after a year or so, even he had to begrudgingly admit he liked their music.
He even came to embrace (part) of Dylan's music . . . and was a huge Simon and Garfunkle fan.
I don't agree w/ the amount of influence you are giving to Dylan as far as the Beatles' music development. I can see in later music where perhaps his poetic style inspired Lennon, in particular. Don't see it w/ George and Paul, tho.
Yes! And let's remember . . . for anyone trying to figure out the history that Boomers went thru/ in order to even SECURE a decent paying job . . . we were embroiled in Viet Nam.
I don't think Gen Xers, especially, have any concept of what it was like to enter high school at 14 years old and know that you (if male) and your classmates, brothers, cousins, and neighbors were all gonna have the draft hanging over your heads until the day you graduate.
I remember it well. Men were assigned a number, depending on their birthdate and the luck of the draw via a lottery system. Successive generations cannot understand the importance of that "number." Surely there are others out there who remember well what it was like, for 18 year olds to realize that the day they graduate from high school, their future was in doubt. The controversy hung over us all like a dark cloud, but it was more palpable than foggy. We were furious b/c we were being marched off to an undeclared war - and we had no choice about it. We were assigned a number, sent a letter and off we went to boot camp and then the jungles of VN.
Every generation has had its challenges. I don't want to minimize the Vietnam experience. However, less than 1/2 of men in that age group actually served in Nam. Draft deferments were very common and I even remember some of my sister's boyfriends getting them. Some served in the military, but took positions guaranteeing that they would in Europe rather than in Asia. Bill Clinton and George W. Bush both legally avoided the draft. For those who served and suffered because of it, I offer my honest sympathies. It was a ridiculous war from beginning to end. I don't blame those who found a way out of serving.
Quote:
So where was this prosperity that I have heard GenXers ruefully refer to so many times on this forum? I have heard this over and over - that Boomers "stole" the prosperity in this country; that selfish Boomers ruined everything for successive generations. I want someone to explain that to me. We graduated from high school and then were forced into military service.
I could draw you a graph showing the rise in GDP from 1945 through 1972 and it would be very impressive. I think it averaged more than 3.5% per year during this 25 year period. Unlike today, much of that wealth filtered down to the masses because of factory jobs, effective unions, a progressive tax structure, and a Congress that had democratic majorities for most of those years.
After 1972, economic growth became a much more dicey proposition. We suffered a recession in 1973 and than a big one in 1979.
Of course its not fair to say all babyboomers got a "swinging deal" and all generation x'ers got the short end of the stick. What is fair to say is that a young man who was an early babyboomer (say 1945 through 1954) got a great advantage over those born during the 1964 to 1974 period. Jobs were abundant for the first group and often required nothing more than an application and a high school diploma. For the second group, even a college degree meant a long period of job seeking. Granted, the second group didn't have to worry about being killed or wounded in Vietnam. However, as I said earlier, the majority of boys escaped that experience.
The boomers didn't experience paradise coming of age, but almost all of us got a better deal than the groups coming afterwards.
markg: you are really stretching it to make a point that Boomers got some especially nice financial boon working between 1966 and 1972, lol. Man, we are talking SIX YEARS and at the BEGINNING of someone's career, assuming that person had a four year degree and finished school at the age of 21, in 1966. I don't know about you, but most folks, even with a college degree, had to work their way up the ladder. You didn't just walk in and get made VP of Finance. But what you are proposing is that folks (men, basically) in the years between 1966 and 1972, and the ages of 21-27, got some great "leg up" over other generations to follow.
Come on. Show me the money! Cause, respectfully, I feel I am being twisted into a pretzel whilst trying to accept your premise.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
