Moving from Southern California to Oregon (Portland, Eugene: living in, prices, stores)
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I don't think it's all that radical to be passing out fliers and asking people to sign a petition. That's exactly what you're supposed to do.... When one isn't happy with the current politics one must take action in their dissent. What IS your problem with dissent? That's a big part of being patriotic. If you don't like what they're passing out, then you have the right to do just what you did and tell them what you support. And Baby Killers? Come on now, don't even pretend that that isn't some right winged fundamental religious group. Stop blaming dems for your problems and acting like they are the only "radical" political group when we all know that's just not true.
Please let's not get into political rants in this thread. It was going so nicely talking about Californians vs Oregonians. As far as attitudes go, I definitely agree with what an earlier poster said about it being an acquired attitude. SoCal people get defensive and you couldn't possibly understand unless you've lived here for a long time. People (many times businesses) are constantly bombarding you with what they are selling or like snb3 said political agenda, or homeless people, gang bangers, seedy stares, people trying to ***** you over from every different direction in every possible way. There's just a feeling of ***** them over or be screwed yourself. It's like.. if you can't beat em, join em and in California, if you want to survive you join them. It's an acquired defense mechanism against all the unruly people you come across when living down here. When someone approaches you on the street theres a 9 in 10 chance that it will be someone trying to hurt you or take advantage of you or sell you something you don't need. After a while, you get your back up about it and avoid making contact, avoid the eye contact (If I had a penny for every time my parents told me never to make eye contact I'd be rich...). It's like anytime you open yourself up or are even perceived as friendly someone comes after you and it just breaks down your resolve.
What Oregonians have to understand is that in California, we go through Hell... (read above) and are constantly trying to protect ourselves. We are wracked with worry about the next person who's gonna take advantage of us and we build a protective barrier around us. The looks you might see as "snobby" might actually be a seasoned Californian who has been hurt or screwed over one too many times and has acquired this personality or perceived attitude as a protection against future harm. Oregonians, it's up to you to show us Californians that you aren't out to hurt us. We aren't used to that so please give us a chance to break down our protective shells because it's more than likely that... we've earned it.
I didn't get that snb3 had a problem with dissent. I got that he disliked being attacked with hatefulness as you mentioned as well. I think you do a fine job Des Demona of covering the crazies as did snb3. Either way we all find ourselves being very protective down here and sometimes for different reasons. I wonder how long it takes to peel away the shield or if it just melts. Either way I am glad that there is are places where all this fur can be shed to a reasonable growth rate.
I would like to remind native Oregonians that people from California who move to your beautiful state have a biggie in common with you: they dislike California too! That should be a friendly conversation starter.
I don't think it's all that radical to be passing out fliers and asking people to sign a petition. That's exactly what you're supposed to do.... When one isn't happy with the current politics one must take action in their dissent. What IS your problem with dissent? That's a big part of being patriotic. If you don't like what they're passing out, then you have the right to do just what you did and tell them what you support. And Baby Killers? Come on now, don't even pretend that that isn't some right winged fundamental religious group. Stop blaming dems for your problems and acting like they are the only "radical" political group when we all know that's just not true.
Please let's not get into political rants in this thread. It was going so nicely talking about Californians vs Oregonians. As far as attitudes go, I definitely agree with what an earlier poster said about it being an acquired attitude. SoCal people get defensive and you couldn't possibly understand unless you've lived here for a long time. People (many times businesses) are constantly bombarding you with what they are selling or like snb3 said political agenda, or homeless people, gang bangers, seedy stares, people trying to ***** you over from every different direction in every possible way. There's just a feeling of ***** them over or be screwed yourself. It's like.. if you can't beat em, join em and in California, if you want to survive you join them. It's an acquired defense mechanism against all the unruly people you come across when living down here. When someone approaches you on the street theres a 9 in 10 chance that it will be someone trying to hurt you or take advantage of you or sell you something you don't need. After a while, you get your back up about it and avoid making contact, avoid the eye contact (If I had a penny for every time my parents told me never to make eye contact I'd be rich...). It's like anytime you open yourself up or are even perceived as friendly someone comes after you and it just breaks down your resolve.
What Oregonians have to understand is that in California, we go through Hell... (read above) and are constantly trying to protect ourselves. We are wracked with worry about the next person who's gonna take advantage of us and we build a protective barrier around us. The looks you might see as "snobby" might actually be a seasoned Californian who has been hurt or screwed over one too many times and has acquired this personality or perceived attitude as a protection against future harm. Oregonians, it's up to you to show us Californians that you aren't out to hurt us. We aren't used to that so please give us a chance to break down our protective shells because it's more than likely that... we've earned it.
You need to chill & re-read my post.
I specifically stated (twice) that portion of my post was not directed as a red/blue issue or did you skip that very important disclaimer I injected. Where did I put ANY blame on Dems? I specifically stated that so whomever was reading would see that I did not place blame on anyone but the haters.
Did I mention anywhere that I had a problem of people passing out fliers & petitions?
You're right in that I had a right to say whatever to whomever approaches me. And in writing that on this thread, I get that response from you? Your response is no different than what that guy's response was. Think about it, what conclusion you've made of me & attacking me based on what you think I am. You just jumped all over me from a guess that I am someone you disagree with. So how is your approach any different from that guy?
I remember some of your post before & believe me, we're more similar than you think. If we weren't, we wouldn't be here.
I wrote that portion as a symptom of certain types of people here I can do without should I go to OR. If you should somehow read into that as something completely different, that is up to you.
I didn't get that snb3 had a problem with dissent. I got that he disliked being attacked with hatefulness as you mentioned as well. I think you do a fine job Des Demona of covering the crazies as did snb3. Either way we all find ourselves being very protective down here and sometimes for different reasons. I wonder how long it takes to peel away the shield or if it just melts. Either way I am glad that there is are places where all this fur can be shed to a reasonable growth rate.
I responded " Sorry, I support the GOP" with a smirk. He went aback, frowned and in a serious manner, said "whats wrong with you?" I then smiled and slowly & clearly said "I'm fine with myself, whats wrong with you?" Thats one of the few times I actually bothered responding. Many times, more than half the time I'm out and about, some groups are out calling someone a baby killer, a nazi, etc. mostly directed @ conservatives & Republicans.
Despite your attempt to "mask" that you weren't making this a RED vs BLUE issue you certainly DID make it one by 1. stating you support the GOP (Red) and 2. Stating that the groups calling people baby killers and nazi's (Blue supposedly) are doing this to the conservatives and republicans (Red). Everything about your statement had Red vs Blue written all over it and simply STATING that it's not a red vs blue issue does not negate the fact that it was exactly what you were making it. The mere fact that you felt you HAD to say that you weren't trying to make it a Red vs Blue issue showed the implications that what you said likely had that element.
Now I was clearly misunderstood by both you and fairweathergolfer when I followed up with my previous post. I was merely TRYING to say that lets not bring politics into the mix and that what you said could be said without making it a Red vs Blue issue (which you most certainly did do despite your claims otherwise). I was merely supporting what you had said about the constant bombardment on the streets without trying to make it so political. There is no need to bring politics into a discussion when you are trying to emphasize how we are constantly being harassed on the streets. No need to use very specific examples that would pit one person against another and distract the discussion. Now please, we've both said our piece, lets move on.
Anyway, I'm glad Fastfilm chimed in. I enjoy her discussions on the California board and definitely empathize with her need to escape the SoCal area like me. It's true that the very people who are leaving California are the ones who DON'T like the California mentality they are trying to escape from. The ones who are the worst Californians are the ones who happily stay there and don't see a problem. Now THOSE people I really don't understand.
Granted the ones the Oregonians are complaining about are likely the ones who've had the roughest time of it in California. I would say to Oregonians to be nice to them and try to show them that you guys aren't out to attack them or hurt them and eventually they will loosen up and start acting like true Oregonians. Try not to isolate them or ignore them or they will just start banding together with other transplants and that will likely change the face of Oregon even more. It's better if you can befriend them, show them how it is different there, teach them how to slow down and enjoy life and you'll have that many more conversions.
Despite your attempt to "mask" that you weren't making this a RED vs BLUE issue you certainly DID make it one by 1. stating you support the GOP (Red) and 2. Stating that the groups calling people baby killers and nazi's (Blue supposedly) are doing this to the conservatives and republicans (Red). Everything about your statement had Red vs Blue written all over it and simply STATING that it's not a red vs blue issue does not negate the fact that it was exactly what you were making it. The mere fact that you felt you HAD to say that you weren't trying to make it a Red vs Blue issue showed the implications that what you said likely had that element.
Now I was clearly misunderstood by both you and fairweathergolfer when I followed up with my previous post. I was merely TRYING to say that lets not bring politics into the mix and that what you said could be said without making it a Red vs Blue issue (which you most certainly did do despite your claims otherwise). I was merely supporting what you had said about the constant bombardment on the streets without trying to make it so political. There is no need to bring politics into a discussion when you are trying to emphasize how we are constantly being harassed on the streets. No need to use very specific examples that would pit one person against another and distract the discussion. Now please, we've both said our piece, lets move on.
Anyway, I'm glad Fastfilm chimed in. I enjoy her discussions on the California board and definitely empathize with her need to escape the SoCal area like me. It's true that the very people who are leaving California are the ones who DON'T like the California mentality they are trying to escape from. The ones who are the worst Californians are the ones who happily stay there and don't see a problem. Now THOSE people I really don't understand.
Granted the ones the Oregonians are complaining about are likely the ones who've had the roughest time of it in California. I would say to Oregonians to be nice to them and try to show them that you guys aren't out to attack them or hurt them and eventually they will loosen up and start acting like true Oregonians. Try not to isolate them or ignore them or they will just start banding together with other transplants and that will likely change the face of Oregon even more. It's better if you can befriend them, show them how it is different there, teach them how to slow down and enjoy life and you'll have that many more conversions.
I'm not sure why you're saying I tried to "mask" anything, if anything I was attempting not to mislead anyone from the getgo. How could I've been any more clear with my intentions? As for what side you think I'm (supposively)attacking, maybe its because I live near Los Feliz & Hollywood & my post was about that area & Westside. If I stated this happened in Irvine or Oceanside, would your reaction have been the same? After all, there are loons on the extreme right that calls the US Military baby killers also. Or is everything one-sided to you? Finally, I said I made that comment with a "smirk" (hint! hint!). What, is this topic beyond the possibility of a casual conversation amongst pedestrians w/o using any sarcasm? I guess I hit that defensive layer of yours you're talking about. Your reaction validates the point of that portion of my post: I make one (albeit flippant but not inappropriate in that situation) comment and I'm called a hater and/or attacked.
Dude... let it go already... you pushed my buttons (politics) and I pushed yours so let's drop it now. You're being just as defensive as I am! I readily admit I'm defensive. That kind of goes back to the whole point of my post about Californians having to be defensive, worried, paranoid, fearful. It's really disgusting what Californians (particularly Southern Californians) have to put up with. There's no reason anyone should be forced to live in such a manner but we do. And some of us (well a lot of us) are sick of it and leaving. Snb3 let's just bond in our mutual disgust of California. You live in Los Feliz at least it's not THAT bad there! That's as ritzy as they come in L.A. I actually kinda like that area. Hollywood... no. Anyway, can we please move on now?
Agreed!, my apologies for not bringing that up sooner. Who knows, we might end up as neighbors up there. Los Feliz is an excellent place to visit/hang out, not a nice place to live. I don't actually live there (within less than 5 minutes) but those 5 minutes make all the difference. Therein lies why I want to go to OR.
No matter how much you spend (and in LA, you have to spend a lot) for a home, you're never too far from the undesireables, just blocks away or closer. Its not a matter of wealth within a community I'm looking for, I want a neighborhood (or city) of like minded people regarding their civic responsiblity. I want to live around people who actually care about their family & home & neighborhood.
Well now wouldn't it be funny if we all including fastfilm ended in the same area in Portland and one day started talking about websites and all found out who each other was . . . what a fun raucous bunch we'd all be. I can see the card games now (or whatever neighborly neighbors do-I think I have forgotten ).
Either way kudos to both of you for moving on together. That makes my day. I don't know where fastfilm is thinking about, but I'm chewing on Portland too. I keep thinking about other areas of California, but to be honest, I am just sick of all the darn people here. I lived in the Seattle area for 12 years and I loved it. I moved to get more sun, but the truth is one can travel to Palm Springs or a sunny place once a month and get revived in the winter. You can afford to up there, compared to the high cost of living down here.
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