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I don’t think you should be accusing me of “cultural un-awareness”. I was just bothered by the term “an Indian on a rez”, it conjures up an negative image in most people’s minds that has no relationship to reality in Oklahoma, or really anywhere, but especially not in Oklahoma. First off, there are no stereotypical large style reservations in Oklahoma, in reality the few reservations that do exist here are mostly just small neighborhoods in towns, not the huge expansive mostly rural and very poor reservations that you see in other states.
You see, I may be “anglo” and while I don’t know where the next NAC meeting is, I actually do know a few roadmen. Do you? My wife and kids are Native, I’ve attended NAC meetings as a guest, and I’ve been invited to stay, I just haven’t done that yet. I’ve spent a good deal of time on what reservations do exist in Oklahoma (and elsewhere) and I know people that live on both kinds of reservations. I’ve been to stomp dances, ceremonials, and too many popwows to count. I’m a member of a gourd clan. I even spent Easter at an Indian Baptist Church. Last weekend I attended a tribal council meeting for one of the big tribes. I know scattered words from three different Native languages. I know the chiefs of two tribes and have met several more. I know quite a number of tribal councilors/congressmen. I’ve even helped run a tribal congress campaign.
Ease up there, Swake. No need to impress with your pedigree/associations.
I don’t think you should be accusing me of “cultural un-awareness”. I was just bothered by the term “an Indian on a rez”, it conjures up an negative image in most people’s minds that has no relationship to reality in Oklahoma, or really anywhere, but especially not in Oklahoma.
Oh, geez, here we go. No one accused you of being culturally unaware! My god, man, lighten up already. The term "NDN on a rez" does not conjure up negative images to me. But thanks for sharing just the same.
Back to the topic. The reality in Oklahoma or anywhere is subjective. Good to hear you are a gourd clan member. Peace.
You wanna know why people in the DEEP SOUTH don’t consider OK a part of the South, is because most people (including folks up here in Ohio) don’t know where OK is on the freaking map! I’ve talked to a lot of people on this topic and trust me, our school systems have failed miserably in the subject of Geography. They have no idea that OK is west of AR, North of TX and Caddy Corner to LA.
If you compare Oklahoma to Arkansas, you will find a lot of similarities. I was born and raised in Lawton, OK and I currently live in Columbus, OH. Let me tell you this, if you were to tell anybody up here that OK is the MIDWEST they would laugh in your face. It’s not even a comparison between the great lake states and OK, culturally, weather wise, diet wise ect. Oklahoma has Oil, Cotton Crops, Red Dirt mounds and roads, old plantation homes, some magnolia trees, had slavery, The Black Wall Street Bombing in Tulsa (Greenwood), was aligned with the confederacy and IS below the Mason Dixon line. Oklahoma has long summers and short mild winters. We “USUALLY” don’t get a lot of snow, but we get a lot of ice which is a characteristic of the rest of the south. Our staple is Fried Okra, and the folks that are native to Oklahoma talk with a SOUTHERN DRAWL or have a SOUTHERN ACCENT. Some of our elementary schools sing DIXIE in place of our national anthem (which is very controversial in some areas). If that doesn’t make you a southern state, I don’t know what does.
Another thing, most Oklahomans like catfish and such. I can tell you that that isn’t necessarily the case in the midwest where some eat Mackerel. The midwest has a strong Catholic influence, while Oklahoma is Baptist country like the rest of the South and OK is in the Bible Belt, the midwest is not.
We are not the (DEEP SOUTH) like Mississippi, but if you had to put us in one of the four regions we are in the South. I would say anything west of OKC is Southwestern and anything east is the South with no arguement. Man, Oklahoma’s problem is the same as Kentucky’s and West Virgina’s. Even the state of Ohio is constantly argued as either Midwest or Northeastern.
Guthrie might have more in common with Kansas than it does Arkansas, while Broken Bow and Hugo have more in common with AR, LA & TX. I know Lawton has way more in common with Texas than any other state. Looking at the animals, Lawton-Fort Sill has Tarantulas while Broken Bow & Idabel have GATORS! It’s a very very diverse state with 13 different sub-tropic climates.
The beautiful thing about the south is, every part of the south have their own unique accents. People in parts of OK, TX, AR and northern LA may talk the same while folks in GA, AL & MS talk another way and the Carolinas talk differently then the rest.
While I admit OK and TX have their own thing goin on & are a lil different. But who says that all of the south has to be like Mississippi or Georgia? Question, why is it that alot of people call red dirt (Georgia Clay) when red dirt is found all throughout the south. From OK to the Carolinas? Somethin to think about. Oklahoma by definition is a Southern State, our neighbors to the east of us who hold a grudge against us because we weren’t a state during the civil war, need to get over it. We were a confederate TERRITORY. Nevertheless, the war is over. Livin up in Ohio, I can truely say that Oklahoma is far from a yankee state. We are the SOUTH! Just not the coastal south.
If you got rid of that little spot of water we call the Red River, you’d never know where Oklahoma ends and Texas begins. I’ve heard some people from the DFW area call Oklahoma “Lil Texas”. Southeast Oklahoma is called Little Dixie.
Even if you just tried to call it "Native America" still has front lawns and vehicles laced with Confeferate Flags so “Native America” has to be in some region. I don’t know what part of Oklahoma you’re from, but I would argue that Oklahoma (especially south of OKC) is very much like North Texas. Not like Houston, not like San Antonio or El Paso. Our panhandle is similar to that whole Amarillo area.
I and my family know plenty of Texans all of them admit (when we put away our pride) that Texas & Oklahoma are very very similar especially if your talkin about Abilene northward.
As far as Oklahoma being a part of the South. We are not in the north like Kansas and Missouri, we are not the desert southwest like New Mexico & Arizona. In my opinion we have more right to be included in the South than KY, MD, DE or even VA who are all further north than OK. Again, east of 35 you get a strong southern feel, you get southern hospitality through 90% of the state, & (the last Civil War battles were in Oklahoma) and we had slavery. The Native Americans that were moved here from Georgia and the Carolinas were allied with and fought with the Confederacy. Please look up “The Black Wall Street”. Trust me, that’s not gonna happen in Chicago, Cleveland, Santa Fe or Phoenix. That Bombing only happens in the South. We have a historically black university (Langston), which is something you find exclusively in southern states (Ohio and Pennsylvania are the exception). We have high schools with names like Booker T. Washington and we also had Dunbar high school in Lawton. The South embassed Booker T. Washington’s philosophy while the North embrassed W. E. B. Du Bois. Despite Midwest City, we have many towns with southern and native american names.
While I agree that we are Native America, we can’t just call ourselves something and not be apart of any region. This is not 1864 when the Mississippi was the dividing line of east and west. Today we are the South!
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 19,426,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkok7
You wanna know why people in the DEEP SOUTH don’t consider OK a part of the South, is because most people (including folks up here in Ohio) don’t know where OK is on the freaking map! I’ve talked to a lot of people on this topic and trust me, our school systems have failed miserably in the subject of Geography. They have no idea that OK is west of AR, North of TX and Caddy Corner to LA.
If you compare Oklahoma to Arkansas, you will find a lot of similarities. I was born and raised in Lawton, OK and I currently live in Columbus, OH. Let me tell you this, if you were to tell anybody up here that OK is the MIDWEST they would laugh in your face. It’s not even a comparison between the great lake states and OK, culturally, weather wise, diet wise ect.
Quote:
Oklahoma has Oil, Cotton Crops, Red Dirt mounds and roads, old plantation homes, some magnolia trees, had slavery, The Black Wall Street Bombing in Tulsa (Greenwood), was aligned with the confederacy and IS below the Mason Dixon line.
Oklahoma has long summers and short mild winters. We “USUALLY” don’t get a lot of snow, but we get a lot of ice which is a characteristic of the rest of the south. Our staple is Fried Okra, and the folks that are native to Oklahoma talk with a SOUTHERN DRAWL or have a SOUTHERN ACCENT. Some of our elementary schools sing DIXIE in place of our national anthem (which is very controversial in some areas). If that doesn’t make you a southern state, I don’t know what does.
Another thing, most Oklahomans like catfish and such. I can tell you that that isn’t necessarily the case in the midwest where some eat Mackerel. The midwest has a strong Catholic influence, while Oklahoma is Baptist country like the rest of the South and OK is in the Bible Belt, the midwest is not.
We are not the (DEEP SOUTH) like Mississippi, but if you had to put us in one of the four regions we are in the South. I would say anything west of OKC is Southwestern and anything east is the South with no arguement. Man, Oklahoma’s problem is the same as Kentucky’s and West Virgina’s. Even the state of Ohio is constantly argued as either Midwest or Northeastern.
Guthrie might have more in common with Kansas than it does Arkansas, while Broken Bow and Hugo have more in common with AR, LA & TX. I know Lawton has way more in common with Texas than any other state. Looking at the animals, Lawton-Fort Sill has Tarantulas while Broken Bow & Idabel have GATORS! It’s a very very diverse state with 13 different sub-tropic climates.
The beautiful thing about the south is, every part of the south have their own unique accents. People in parts of OK, TX, AR and northern LA may talk the same while folks in GA, AL & MS talk another way and the Carolinas talk differently then the rest.
While I admit OK and TX have their own thing goin on & are a lil different. But who says that all of the south has to be like Mississippi or Georgia? Question, why is it that alot of people call red dirt (Georgia Clay) when red dirt is found all throughout the south. From OK to the Carolinas? Somethin to think about. Oklahoma by definition is a Southern State, our neighbors to the east of us who hold a grudge against us because we weren’t a state during the civil war, need to get over it. We were a confederate TERRITORY. Nevertheless, the war is over. Livin up in Ohio, I can truely say that Oklahoma is far from a yankee state. We are the SOUTH! Just not the coastal south.
If you got rid of that little spot of water we call the Red River, you’d never know where Oklahoma ends and Texas begins. I’ve heard some people from the DFW area call Oklahoma “Lil Texas”. Southeast Oklahoma is called Little Dixie.
Even if you just tried to call it "Native America" still has front lawns and vehicles laced with Confeferate Flags so “Native America” has to be in some region. I don’t know what part of Oklahoma you’re from, but I would argue that Oklahoma (especially south of OKC) is very much like North Texas. Not like Houston, not like San Antonio or El Paso. Our panhandle is similar to that whole Amarillo area.
I and my family know plenty of Texans all of them admit (when we put away our pride) that Texas & Oklahoma are very very similar especially if your talkin about Abilene northward.
As far as Oklahoma being a part of the South. We are not in the north like Kansas and Missouri, we are not the desert southwest like New Mexico & Arizona. In my opinion we have more right to be included in the South than KY, MD, DE or even VA who are all further north than OK. Again, east of 35 you get a strong southern feel, you get southern hospitality through 90% of the state, & (the last Civil War battles were in Oklahoma) and we had slavery. The Native Americans that were moved here from Georgia and the Carolinas were allied with and fought with the Confederacy. Please look up “The Black Wall Street”. Trust me, that’s not gonna happen in Chicago, Cleveland, Santa Fe or Phoenix. That Bombing only happens in the South. We have a historically black university (Langston), which is something you find exclusively in southern states (Ohio and Pennsylvania are the exception). We have high schools with names like Booker T. Washington and we also had Dunbar high school in Lawton. The South embassed Booker T. Washington’s philosophy while the North embrassed W. E. B. Du Bois. Despite Midwest City, we have many towns with southern and native american names.
While I agree that we are Native America, we can’t just call ourselves something and not be apart of any region. This is not 1864 when the Mississippi was the dividing line of east and west. Today we are the South!
I didn't include it because it has nothing to do with this discussion. Try not to include a smiley face when referring to that tragedy where people lost there lives for nothing.
You wanna know why people in the DEEP SOUTH don’t consider OK a part of the South, is because most people (including folks up here in Ohio) don’t know where OK is on the freaking map! I’ve talked to a lot of people on this topic and trust me, our school systems have failed miserably in the subject of Geography. They have no idea that OK is west of AR, North of TX and Caddy Corner to LA.
If you compare Oklahoma to Arkansas, you will find a lot of similarities. I was born and raised in Lawton, OK and I currently live in Columbus, OH. Let me tell you this, if you were to tell anybody up here that OK is the MIDWEST they would laugh in your face. It’s not even a comparison between the great lake states and OK, culturally, weather wise, diet wise ect. Oklahoma has Oil, Cotton Crops, Red Dirt mounds and roads, old plantation homes, some magnolia trees, had slavery, The Black Wall Street Bombing in Tulsa (Greenwood), was aligned with the confederacy and IS below the Mason Dixon line. Oklahoma has long summers and short mild winters. We “USUALLY” don’t get a lot of snow, but we get a lot of ice which is a characteristic of the rest of the south. Our staple is Fried Okra, and the folks that are native to Oklahoma talk with a SOUTHERN DRAWL or have a SOUTHERN ACCENT. Some of our elementary schools sing DIXIE in place of our national anthem (which is very controversial in some areas). If that doesn’t make you a southern state, I don’t know what does.
Another thing, most Oklahomans like catfish and such. I can tell you that that isn’t necessarily the case in the midwest where some eat Mackerel. The midwest has a strong Catholic influence, while Oklahoma is Baptist country like the rest of the South and OK is in the Bible Belt, the midwest is not.
We are not the (DEEP SOUTH) like Mississippi, but if you had to put us in one of the four regions we are in the South. I would say anything west of OKC is Southwestern and anything east is the South with no arguement. Man, Oklahoma’s problem is the same as Kentucky’s and West Virgina’s. Even the state of Ohio is constantly argued as either Midwest or Northeastern.
Guthrie might have more in common with Kansas than it does Arkansas, while Broken Bow and Hugo have more in common with AR, LA & TX. I know Lawton has way more in common with Texas than any other state. Looking at the animals, Lawton-Fort Sill has Tarantulas while Broken Bow & Idabel have GATORS! It’s a very very diverse state with 13 different sub-tropic climates.
The beautiful thing about the south is, every part of the south have their own unique accents. People in parts of OK, TX, AR and northern LA may talk the same while folks in GA, AL & MS talk another way and the Carolinas talk differently then the rest.
While I admit OK and TX have their own thing goin on & are a lil different. But who says that all of the south has to be like Mississippi or Georgia? Question, why is it that alot of people call red dirt (Georgia Clay) when red dirt is found all throughout the south. From OK to the Carolinas? Somethin to think about. Oklahoma by definition is a Southern State, our neighbors to the east of us who hold a grudge against us because we weren’t a state during the civil war, need to get over it. We were a confederate TERRITORY. Nevertheless, the war is over. Livin up in Ohio, I can truely say that Oklahoma is far from a yankee state. We are the SOUTH! Just not the coastal south.
If you got rid of that little spot of water we call the Red River, you’d never know where Oklahoma ends and Texas begins. I’ve heard some people from the DFW area call Oklahoma “Lil Texas”. Southeast Oklahoma is called Little Dixie.
Even if you just tried to call it "Native America" still has front lawns and vehicles laced with Confeferate Flags so “Native America” has to be in some region. I don’t know what part of Oklahoma you’re from, but I would argue that Oklahoma (especially south of OKC) is very much like North Texas. Not like Houston, not like San Antonio or El Paso. Our panhandle is similar to that whole Amarillo area.
I and my family know plenty of Texans all of them admit (when we put away our pride) that Texas & Oklahoma are very very similar especially if your talkin about Abilene northward.
As far as Oklahoma being a part of the South. We are not in the north like Kansas and Missouri, we are not the desert southwest like New Mexico & Arizona. In my opinion we have more right to be included in the South than KY, MD, DE or even VA who are all further north than OK. Again, east of 35 you get a strong southern feel, you get southern hospitality through 90% of the state, & (the last Civil War battles were in Oklahoma) and we had slavery. The Native Americans that were moved here from Georgia and the Carolinas were allied with and fought with the Confederacy. Please look up “The Black Wall Street”. Trust me, that’s not gonna happen in Chicago, Cleveland, Santa Fe or Phoenix. That Bombing only happens in the South. We have a historically black university (Langston), which is something you find exclusively in southern states (Ohio and Pennsylvania are the exception). We have high schools with names like Booker T. Washington and we also had Dunbar high school in Lawton. The South embassed Booker T. Washington’s philosophy while the North embrassed W. E. B. Du Bois. Despite Midwest City, we have many towns with southern and native american names.
While I agree that we are Native America, we can’t just call ourselves something and not be apart of any region. This is not 1864 when the Mississippi was the dividing line of east and west. Today we are the South!
>>>>>
I was born and raised in Lawton, OK and I currently live in Columbus, OH. Let me tell you this, if you were to tell anybody up here that OK is the MIDWEST they would laugh in your face.
<<<<<
That is true. Sorry to hear a born&bred Okie doesn't live here anymore.
I think Oklahoma is more like the Maine coast......the pounding of the surf, the fresh salt smell of the Atlantic.............just substitute the pounding of the surf by the blowing of the wind, and the smell of the Atlantic for the smell of an oil well, and its practically the same.
>>>>>
I was born and raised in Lawton, OK and I currently live in Columbus, OH. Let me tell you this, if you were to tell anybody up here that OK is the MIDWEST they would laugh in your face.
<<<<<
That is true. Sorry to hear a born&bred Okie doesn't live here anymore.
Yeah don't remind me. I moved here after graduating from High School. The good news- In a few years we are moving to the DFW area which is just miles south of the Texoma Region. I'd love to move to the OKC area, but the real estate market can't compare to that in the DFW area. You just can't beat the deals.
This is a common debate. The way I see it, Oklahoma City and west of that is very 'western' feel. It is a crossroads from the East to West. Everything east of that is more of a 'southern' feel. Although, I have heard that much of eastern Oklahoma was prarie too before they built all the small lakes and before farmers planted huge numbers of trees after the great depression (to anchor the soil I guess). I have seen info that the great Eastern Woodlands (from the gulf to Hudson bay and from the Atlantic to the edge of the Great plains, once the largest unbroken woodlands on earth) are taking over the prarie bit by bit.
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Oh, geez, here we go. 
No one accused you of being culturally unaware! My god, man, lighten up already. The term "NDN on a rez" does not conjure up negative images to me. But thanks for sharing just the same. 
