[vrussell]

Just wondering which of these states has the lower tax base/lower cost of living? Does the tax rate vary from county to county much? We're looking in the NW Arkansas, SW Missouri or NE Oklahoma area (hope I got that right). I am seeing more jobs available in the NW AR area, but along with that is higher priced land, which is fine, just wondering about the taxes as we are hoping to retire wherever we end up moving to. Thanks!

[Jammie]

Hi V, I can't figure out a way to get the income tax info for you, but I did a quick check of property tax.

It's odd cause I didn't figure it varied much from county to county, but I just picked out some cities in the area you're looking at and this is what I found:

Joplin, Mo~6.96

Fayetteville, AR~9.23

Grove, OK~8.18

Tulsa, OK~12.72

Guess it depends on where you're from now as to how you feel about those rates. My own rate is a bit over 21.00 per 1,000 so they all look extremely reasonable to me.

Actually, even though Tulsa's tax rate is higher, I've found that their housing is very reasonable. If you check out realtor.com, you can go with a rate of 100,000 and it's amazing the amount of homes that will come up for that price. Of course, if you're looking for something more upscale, you can always raise your maximum price.

I'm not much help with the state income taxes cause I'm still working on figuring that out myself. We come from a state that has no income tax.

OK. I did find something~

Oklahoma Income Tax Information (http://www.oktax.state.ok.us/oktax/incomtax.html#Rates - broken link)

Missouri State Income Tax Information (broken link)

http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/l...R.html#taxrate

[peggydavis]

Good sites, Jammie.

Oh, the infernal method one and method two of Oklahoma Income Taxes!

The rules for both states are pretty confusing for most of us. I tried the salary wizard for a pay of $1346.96 every two weeks, and they came out to have pretty much the same deducted for both states income tax. $61.00 for OK and $63.13 AR.

I think that states with no income tax make up for it with higher property tax. Some states are lucky with tourism and can make up for it with hotel taxes so those from out of state pay some of the taxes. Some states get revenue from casinos. Then there are sales taxes, gasoline taxes, vehicle tags, production tax on oil & gas, tax on air we breathe will be next I'm sure. It is pretty hard to compare taxes between states, but I'm sure we all pay a lot in taxes one way or the other.

[vrussell]

Thanks Jammie and peggydavis for the quick replies and good information. Trying to get this all figured out so we can narrow down our choices in the next few months.

We bought a place in Texas a few years ago and didn't ask that question in time. Turns out we got socked pretty good with taxes there because it had a covered riding arena AND the county we bought in turned out to be one of 4 in Texas that still has personal property taxes We learned our lesson there!

Looking for a little more resonable place to retire that we can keep our equine on. Need at least 10 acres and places to ride - if you have any suggestions please toss them out!

Thanks again,
Vicki

[peggydavis]

I see that you are looking in NE OK, so this may not fit your needs. You might try the area around Seminole, OK. It is a little scenic there, land is fairly cheap, and Sportsman's Lake is a great place to ride. If you don't want to live around there, you can always come for a week end. It's a great place to spend an October weekend. Here's a link to an article about the trails and a good picture.
Horses for sale, horse health news, trail riding and horse chat. (http://horsecity.com/stories/051904/tra_sportsman_PD.shtml - broken link)

You could commute to OKC or Norman for work from the area, but it would take over an hour probably. I don't know what line of work you all are in, but you might even find local employment. Property taxes on rural land would be cheaper than in the next areas I will tell you about.

You might also consider the southeastern areas of Logan County and northeastern Edmond. This is a horsey area but it is much more expensive. Some big houses and fancy barns are in the area. You are east of I-35 so you are in the trees and small hills.

In NE OK, the only places I am familiar with are south of Tulsa, near Mounds in general. This is an area of high land prices, or high to me I should say. Quite a few people keep horses on smaller pieces of land there, and it is still possible to ride on the road there, as there is not so much traffic yet. The risk there would be encroaching suburbs, as Tulsa is growing.

Hope this helps!

I read the rest of the article and found it lists a lot of other things to do in the area. The article is a little dated, but the trails are still the same. The Red Earth Festival is not at the fairgrounds now, but is in downtown OKC. It is better for everyone that way, because there are many more people visiting downtown and so the Festival gets better attendance. For the audience, downtown is more fun. You can go to Red Earth Festival, and Bricktown or the Art Museum in one trip.

[Jammie]

Those are good suggestions, Peggy. It's always nice when the posters who actually live there OR HAVE lived there offer info. It's just so much more "first hand".

You know, it just seems like you'll get taxed about the same one way or the other. The only way the tax will let up is once we're fully retired. Then all we need to worry about is property tax. Oh yea, I'll NEVER be able to fully retire.

We do get some $$ up here from tourism and casinos, etc. We don't pay income tax, but we have a high property tax rate. So it's all a wash.

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but~do they automatically take state income tax right out of your paycheck? Sorry to sound dumb about this, but we've always lived here and I really don't know. From reading Peggy's post, it sounds like they do. Is it then adjusted at income tax time just like federal tax is?

[peggydavis]

Yes, it is taken directly from your paycheck, and is on your W-2 just like federal taxes. It works the same, you either get a refund or have to pay. Maybe it was my income level but I always had to have extra withheld from my checks for state taxes, but I always got a refund on my federal taxes. I'm not sure that is a typical experience.

On the subject of property tax, I'm no expert, but I think that if your land is agricultural land instead of residential land your property taxes are a lot lower. Here is a link that explains property taxes in OK. Oklahoma Property Taxes

[Cali BassMan]

Originally posted on the Missouri Forum

VRussell,
Much like you we are looking for a place to retire with our horses..We too are interested in SW MO, NW AR or NE OK. Last week we visted all these areas to sort of get a lay of the land. All the terrain is simular, beautiful rolling hills with trees and water. NW Ar seems to have higher real estate prices and is somewhat more crowded, we noticed less horses too, more chickens in the country side. Mo and OK both look very horsey, with pretty properties at very reasonable prices. We liked the Tallequha, Oklahoma area as well as Missouri. We still want to check out both alot more before buying though. I've heard alot of good things about the West PLains Area of Mo. ( I have relatives near there)
Here's a total tax burden chart I found that says they are about the same as far as taxes too...


The Tax Foundation, a policy research group, estimated the average taxpayer's total state and local tax burden for 2005 in each of the 50 states and the District of Columbia. That burden reflects what residents pay in state and local income taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, luxury taxes and fuel taxes, among others. States below are ranked from least to most tax friendly. (Read more about this table below.)

Click on column headings to re-sort »

State-Local Tax Burdens, Calendar Year 2005
Rank State State/Local taxes as
% of per capita income
U.S. average 10.10%
1 Maine 13.00%
2 New York 12.00%
3 Hawaii 11.50%
4 Rhode Island 11.40%
5 Wisconsin 11.40%
6 Vermont 11.10%
7 Ohio 11.00%
8 Nebraska 10.90%
9 Utah 10.90%
10 Minnesota 10.70%
11 Arkansas 10.50%
12 Connecticut 10.50%
13 West Virginia 10.50%
14 New Jersey 10.40%
15 Kansas 10.40%
16 Louisiana 10.40%
17 Maryland 10.30%
18 Indiana 10.30%
19 Kentucky 10.30%
20 California 10.30%
21 Arizona 10.20%
22 Michigan 10.10%
23 Wyoming 10.10%
24 Washington 10.00%
25 Iowa 10.00%
26 Mississippi 10.00%
27 Idaho 10.00%
28 North Carolina 10.00%
29 New Mexico 9.90%
30 Illinois 9.80%
31 Georgia 9.80%
32 Massachusetts 9.80%
33 South Carolina 9.70%
34 Virginia 9.70%
35 Pennsylvania 9.70%
36 Oregon 9.60%
37 Colorado 9.50%
38 Nevada 9.50%
39 Montana 9.50%
40 Oklahoma 9.40%
41 Missouri 9.40%
42 North Dakota 9.40%
43 Texas 9.30%
44 Florida 9.20%
45 South Dakota 8.80%
46 Alabama 8.70%
47 Tennessee 8.30%
48 Delaware 8.00%
49 New Hampshire 7.40%
50 Alaska 6.40%
District of Columbia 12.20%
Source: Tax Foundation, 2005



More tax info: Big city tax burdens »
Tax rankings: Income, sales, property »
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The state/local tax burden reflects what a state and its local governments collect as a percentage of per capita income. So, for example, with a state/local tax burden of 10.4 percent, the state of New Jersey and its local governments get about a tenth of what its residents make per capita.

Of course, if you live in the Garden State your personal tax burden may be higher or lower. Much will depend, as it would in any state, on whether you own your home, where in the state you live, how much you make and the source of your income.

[Jammie]

Cali, that's a good tax table. I've never seen it before. Looks like OK and So. Dak. are pretty tax friendly. Thank you for posting it.

Peggy, thank you for the info. And with ag-land~yea it's taxed at a much lower rate. It is in my state anyway and I'd guess it has to be in other areas of the country or our farmers would go bankrupt. Not sure how similar our two states are on this, but here 100,000 worth of ag land carries a tax burden of about 825 a year. Of course, it does vary from county to county and I'm not exactly sure how OK would compare with that. But since our real estate tax is over 2100 per 100,000 and our ag tax is 825 per 100,00, I'd just venture a GUESS that in OK ag land would also be taxed at less then 50% of real estate tax. Hopefully someone will come along who will know for sure.

[vrussell]

Great article peggydavis, thanks!

Been hearing good things about the Tahlequah area also. I noticed that's where SinCity ended up finding "the place"!

I think the biggest issue that I might have with OK is that my family was from there (Prague, Shawnee area), during the Depression, and all I ever heard was the negatives when I was growing up. Went over to mom's (76 y.o.)yesterday and tried to get her to tell me about some of these places and she wouldn't even talk about them. Won't bother to repeat what she said
I'm trying to keep an open mindset!

I actually would like to find a place that is close to National Forest so I couild do more riding that just down the road. I have mules and love to get out and really ride. However, my hubby wants rolling hills and green grass pastures with a sprinkling of trees. So now we have to find - "the right place" that will fit us both

I am a school counselor/teacher and hubby is a "jack of all trades" so me finding a decent job is the main thing Tahlequah is one of the few places I've noticed needing teachers. Vinita is another along with Broken Arrow.

Here's a few questions for the great folks out there:

1) Where are the National Forests - for more than road riding,
2) How's the job market for those of us that will need to continue working (school counselor/teacher)?
3) What's the weather like around there?

Think I keep going back to NW Arkansas because the pay is so much better in education. However, I'm trying to see if the price of land offsets the pay, which is difficult...

Thanks for the tax information. I kinda figured it'd look like it does.
Vicki