Excluding Cincinnati, how Appalachian-influenced is Southwestern Ohio on the whole? (Toledo: home, to live in)

[Doughboy1918]

I've noticed the discussion of whether or not Cincinnati is more Midwestern or Appalachian/Southern seems to be a popular topic for debate, not just on here but on other geography forums as well. To paraphrase; most people will usually say it's about 60% Midwestern and 40% Appalachian, more or less (interestingly I've even heard some people say how the city also has a lot in common with the Great Lakes despite its location).

However, how "Appalachian" is the rest of southwestern Ohio? I've heard a lot of people say how this region is also very Appalachian influenced not only due to relative proximity, but of course as well, the historic migration patterns of which consisted of a large influx of Appalachians into the area during the early-mid 20th century. Part of the greater Appalachian migration northward, occurring at the same time as the Great Migration of African Americans. Bear in mind however, Appalachian migrants also had a significant presence even further north in the Upper Midwestern cities of Toledo, Fort Wayne, Detroit and Chicago. Being as far away as Appalachia as those places are, the cultural influence they would have had there obviously would have been less impactful and would have been diluted quicker.

But what about southwestern Ohio? Places like the northern suburbs of Cincinnati such as Hamilton, Lebanon, Fairfield, Middletown, as well as towns like Dayton, Xenia and Springfield. Was the Appalachian influx into this region significant enough that the culture the migrants brought had long-lasting effects to these places and if so may even still be evident to this day? Having listened closely to the accents spoken in the area, local residents all seem to speak with very neutral, non-distinctive American accents and statistics show that Mainline Protestants and Catholics are more prevalent than Evangelicals. However though, Appalachians and Appalachian culture typically is seen as being very conservative, and the politics of SW Ohio seem to be reliably Republican, even in places as urbanised as Montgomery and Butler counties. Beyond that, there’s not a lot of information I can find online about this topic. So I thought it be best to ask people of the area what they might know about this and give input.

Why do I ask? Appalachian culture includes things like fundamentalism, strong family ties, machismo, etc. and I strongly feel as if these aspects are very much integral to American culture at large (and really the modern western world, which is overwhelmingly influenced by the US), and knowing if the reason is because of how strong Appalachian migration and influence was to somewhere as urbanised as southwestern Ohio, and of which lies within a days drive of about 70% of the US and also Canadian population, then I can prove this theory in a sense. If indeed proven, Appalachia can very well be understood as having shaped the western world on a cultural level so much more than most people would believe.

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by Doughboy1918

But what about southwestern Ohio? Places like the northern suburbs of Cincinnati such as Hamilton, Lebanon, Fairfield, Middletown, as well as towns like Dayton, Xenia and Springfield. Was the Appalachian influx into this region significant enough that the culture the migrants brought had long-lasting effects to these places and if so may even still be evident to this day?

I may be dating myself with this phrase, first moving to the area in the mid-70s, but there was an obvious "briar culture" pretty much everywhere from Hamilton to Dayton to Batavia. Like any other subculture in a society, there are good points and not-so-good points about Appalachian culture migrating to Ohio.

Having listened closely to the accents spoken in the area, local residents all seem to speak with very neutral, non-distinctive American accents and statistics show that Mainline Protestants and Catholics are more prevalent than Evangelicals.

Not the southwestern Ohio I used to live in, for the accents, anyway. When I first moved to Lebanon, I was told that I was going to hell (by a 10-year-old whose grandparents emigrated from Kentucky) because I was a Catholic. Lovely.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by Doughboy1918

However, how "Appalachian" is the rest of southwestern Ohio?

I would say there is a fairly strong influence and I think a lot of that migration happened when manufacturing jobs were plentous in our urban centers such as Dayton, Cincinnati primarily. Ive lived in Dayton, East End to be exact and was up to my neck in appalachian culture...currently live in Cincinnati and theres a decent enough presence around here as well. I think out in the country it can perhaps be more so as one moves closer to WVA/NKY.

[midwest1]

I'm half Middletuckian...like Senator JD Vance (a full Middletuckian), author of Hillbilly Elegy. "Greater Middletown" is Id say about 150,000 people and my guess is half trace their ancestry to eastern Kentucky. Basically Middletown would be the largest city in eastern Kentucky.

Downriver in Hamilton, I'd say there are similar percentages. Hamilton also has an Appalachian Cultural Center.

Middletown is also home to the Pendleton Arts Center, the second location, original is in Paducah Kentucky.

[midwest1]

And a semantic point...Hamilton and Middletown are not "northern suburbs" of Cincinnati...they are two legacy cities that have their own "suburbs"

[Karl Lagos]

Still more German influenced.

[Doughboy1918]

Originally Posted by midwest1

I'm half Middletuckian...like Senator JD Vance (a full Middletuckian), author of Hillbilly Elegy. "Greater Middletown" is Id say about 150,000 people and my guess is half trace their ancestry to eastern Kentucky. Basically Middletown would be the largest city in eastern Kentucky.

Downriver in Hamilton, I'd say there are similar percentages. Hamilton also has an Appalachian Cultural Center.

Middletown is also home to the Pendleton Arts Center, the second location, original is in Paducah Kentucky.

Was the Applachian influx to Middletown greater than that of Hamilton? I ask because Middletown was always reliant on Armco steel giving it a distinctive blue-collar character. Whereas it seems Hamilton always had a slightly more diverse economy, therefor making it less attractive to Appalachians (steel and coal production being the number one industries in Appalachia of course).

Originally Posted by midwest1

And a semantic point...Hamilton and Middletown are not "northern suburbs" of Cincinnati...they are two legacy cities that have their own "suburbs"

Both are considered part of the Cincinnati metropolitan area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincin...ea#Main_cities

[woxyroxme]

Originally Posted by midwest1

And a semantic point...Hamilton and Middletown are not "northern suburbs" of Cincinnati...they are two legacy cities that have their own "suburbs"

True, you can explain that 1000 times but you can’t understand that for them.

Originally Posted by Doughboy1918

Both are considered part of the Cincinnati metropolitan area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincin...ea#Main_cities

Irrelevant, incompetent and immaterial. Being in a metropolitan area does not make every town in it a suburb.

Suburbs are places that came about during the postwar period (Kettering, Wyoming, Riverside and Kenwood) far flung towns settled by pioneers 200+ years ago are not suburbs. The reason why this is important to understand is essential to answering the question you are asking in this thread. Places like Lebanon, Xenia and Wilmington were founded because of agriculture and only became small towns because they were farming towns. Middletown, Hamilton and even Springfield are industrial towns and had the means to draw more residents because they offered more in the way of job opportunities.

The US was founded and settled by anglo English Protestants, Catholics did not arrive in this country in significant numbers until the Industrial Revolution and tended to settle in cities and not in rural areas which remained predominantly evangelical Christian. The same applies to the Appalachians who migrated from coal country, they also took factory jobs in bigger cities as opposed to clearing land in Fayette county to grow corn and soybeans, this had already been done generations ago.

[Doughboy1918]

Originally Posted by woxyroxme

True, you can explain that 1000 times but you can’t understand that for them.


Irrelevant, incompetent and immaterial. Being in a metropolitan area does not make every town in it a suburb.

Suburbs are places that came about during the postwar period (Kettering, Wyoming, Riverside and Kenwood) far flung towns settled by pioneers 200+ years ago are not suburbs. The reason why this is important to understand is essential to answering the question you are asking in this thread. Places like Lebanon, Xenia and Wilmington were founded because of agriculture and only became small towns because they were farming towns. Middletown, Hamilton and even Springfield are industrial towns and had the means to draw more residents because they offered more in the way of job opportunities.

The US was founded and settled by anglo English Protestants, Catholics did not arrive in this country in significant numbers until the Industrial Revolution and tended to settle in cities and not in rural areas which remained predominantly evangelical Christian. The same applies to the Appalachians who migrated from coal country, they also took factory jobs in bigger cities as opposed to clearing land in Fayette county to grow corn and soybeans, this had already been done generations ago.

That's because for one thing, those first places you describe are inner-ring suburbs. Second, Middletown and Hamilton are suburbs because they are still connected to the same suburban complex that stretch all the way down to the anchor city of the metro area, and although the two aforementioned communities are legacy cities in their own right, they have always also been heavily influenced by nearby larger cities. Similar examples are the St. Louis suburbs of Belleville and Alton, the Chicago suburb of Joliet and the Kansas City suburbs of Independence and Liberty, etc.

[midwest1]

Hamilton and Middletown were a separate metropolitan area until the 1980 or 90 Census.

They are clearly not suburbs. Hamilton urban core is booming, Middletown's is starting to shift into sustained regeneration.

Middletown btw is located closer to Dayton than Cincy and the connected development between the two is arguably more cohesive than it is to the south

All four are merging..but that doesn't turn Middletown and Hamilton into nete suburbs. It is not what they are. Period.