The nightlife is Tysons/Vienna is lacking (Fairfax: good hotel, buy)

[r small]

"Downtown" is the central business district of any city. It's usually the oldest section of the city and has some interesting old buildings and walkable streets. Tyson's has none of these things. Just a hideous suburban wasteland of shopping malls, parking lots, and non-descript office buildings.

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by r small

"Downtown" is the central business district of any city. It's usually the oldest section of the city and has some interesting old buildings and walkable streets. Tyson's has none of these things. Just a hideous suburban wasteland of shopping malls, parking lots, and non-descript office buildings.

Key words highlighted above. Your word of importance there is usually. Show me the historic, walkable, old buildings of Downtown Atlanta. By that measure no new cities are allowed to be built from now on. The static age of development is upon us. Only old cities will be allowed. It is a theory that only what exists today can exist tomorrow. If a new comstock load is found in let's say Oregon, a city is not allowed to build around that because it didn't previously exist and therefore can't have a downtown. I wonder if folks in Charlotte in 1900 said, we can't build a city here, everyone move to NYC or Philly (all places begin somewhere).

The existence of a downtown does not equate to the existence of a GOOD downtown. What you are describing above is a GOOD downtown, a measure of appeal. However, there can be BAD downtowns. I would argue (and I'm guessing most of the people on this forum) that Tysons is a BAD downtown. So we are in agreement that it isn't a good "thing" today.

But that doesn't mean it isn't still a commercial downtown (atleast on a microscale) for Fairfax. It is where Fairfax Co Economic Development Authority is, it is where the Fairfax Chamber of Commerce is, it is where half a dozen fortune 500 companies are, it is by far the most expensive land in Fairfax, it is where the tallest buildings in Fairfax are. It is the largest amalgam of retail square footage in Fairfax. It is the largest number of restaurants per square mile in Fairfax. Therefore if one were to posit the hypothetical question, what is Fairfax's commercial downtown, then Tysons would be the correct answer by all metrics.

[r small]

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

Key words highlighted above. Your word of importance there is usually. Show me the historic, walkable, old buildings of Downtown Atlanta. By that measure no new cities are allowed to be built from now on. The static age of development is upon us. Only old cities will be allowed. It is a theory that only what exists today can exist tomorrow. If a new comstock load is found in let's say Oregon, a city is not allowed to build around that because it didn't previously exist and therefore can't have a downtown. I wonder if folks in Charlotte in 1900 said, we can't build a city here, everyone move to NYC or Philly (all places begin somewhere).

The existence of a downtown does not equate to the existence of a GOOD downtown. What you are describing above is a GOOD downtown, a measure of appeal. However, there can be BAD downtowns. I would argue (and I'm guessing most of the people on this forum) that Tysons is a BAD downtown. So we are in agreement that it isn't a good "thing" today.

But that doesn't mean it isn't still a commercial downtown (atleast on a microscale) for Fairfax. It is where Fairfax Co Economic Development Authority is, it is where the Fairfax Chamber of Commerce is, it is where half a dozen fortune 500 companies are, it is by far the most expensive land in Fairfax, it is where the tallest buildings in Fairfax are. It is the largest amalgam of retail square footage in Fairfax. It is the largest number of restaurants per square mile in Fairfax. Therefore if one were to posit the hypothetical question, what is Fairfax's commercial downtown, then Tysons would be the correct answer by all metrics.

Good points. But I don't think I'll ever be able to think of Tyson's as Fairfax County's "downtown". Maybe as Fairfax County's main shopping area or business area. But "downtown"? I guess I'm just too "old school". When I think of "downtown" these days I think of DC from about 7th St. NW over to about 23rd St.

[Old Guard]

Isn't Tyson's just McClean? I thought businesses wanted a McClean address?

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by r small

Good points. But I don't think I'll ever be able to think of Tyson's as Fairfax County's "downtown". Maybe as Fairfax County's main shopping area or business area. But "downtown"? I guess I'm just too "old school". When I think of "downtown" these days I think of DC from about 7th St. NW over to about 23rd St.

No that is a valid opinion, and you are correct on those blocks, they are DC's and the region's commercial downtown; more jobs are located there than any comparable commercial zone.

[gomason]

With all this naysaying about Tysons, for fun, I went back in the Washington Post's Archives and looked at some of the articles that talked about North Arlington's development while Metro was built in the late 70s.

As William Golden, who was born and raised in Clarendon, said while he shopped there recently: "Clarendon has been dying fast. This (Metro) will either finish or bring it back. You see Friedman move across the street (from his old store) and you see people like this," he said as he gestured toward the store closing sign on the Singer store. "It's anybody's guess right now" what will happen to Clarendon."

Henry Hulme, Arlington County's public works director, said in an interview that the new line "will be such a help to people in the western part of Northern Virginia that a lot more people are going to try and use automobiles to get to Metro. Their problem is there will be little parking. No new lots, by Metro or others, are planned around the station entrances, although some temporary lots may be permitted.

Sound a lot like Tysons?

In the interim, change stubbornly bypassed Ballston. Developers seeking proximity to downtown still had room to build in Crystal City and Rosslyn along the Potomac, and in Arlington's Court House District just west of Rosslyn. Developers wooing refugees from urban life chose to build farther out, toward Tysons Corner and Fairfax. Ballston, it seemed, was stuck in between.

Buchanan, seeking a construction loan, was interrupted by a disconcerting remark from the lender. "He kept shaking his head and looking at me," Buchanan recalled. "And then he'd say, 'Tell me again what's going to happen her, and when it's going to happen?

I don't think Tysons is going to be an urban mecca overnight, but it is way too early to say the transformation is going to be unsuccessful...It took a good 15 years for North Arlington to be transformed. Ballston was Parkington after all before it was Ballston and it boasted having the world's largest parking garage.

[Old Guard]

Originally Posted by gomason

With all this naysaying about Tysons, for fun, I went back in the Washington Post's Archives and looked at some of the articles that talked about North Arlington's development while Metro was built in the late 70s.

Sound a lot like Tysons?

I don't think Tysons is going to be an urban mecca overnight, but it is way too early to say the transformation is going to be unsuccessful...It took a good 15 years for North Arlington to be transformed. Ballston was Parkington after all before it was Ballston and it boasted having the world's largest parking garage.

I think that Tyson's will get better and it will get bigger. I think it has lots of potential. It just is not a regional leader for now even though it may be the regions greatest tag along at this time. I like a lot of what they are doing. They seem to have the room to do some really nice things. If Tyson's does become a full fledged city doesn't that just make the Orange Line between DC and Tyson's that much more desirable?

Couples with split commutes between DC and Tyson's would seem to do well to live between rather than on the outside.

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by gomason

With all this naysaying about Tysons, for fun, I went back in the Washington Post's Archives and looked at some of the articles that talked about North Arlington's development while Metro was built in the late 70s.





Sound a lot like Tysons?





I don't think Tysons is going to be an urban mecca overnight, but it is way too early to say the transformation is going to be unsuccessful...It took a good 15 years for North Arlington to be transformed. Ballston was Parkington after all before it was Ballston and it boasted having the world's largest parking garage.

B.A. find, well done sir.

[r small]

I don't know of anyone who refers to the Roslyn-Clarendon-Ballston corridor as Arlington's "downtown". If you told a native Arlingtonian that you were going to downtown Arlington they'd give you a blank stare. Same with Alexandria, my home town. We'll say things like "I'm going into town" or maybe "I'm going into Old Town" but never "I'm going downtown". Maybe someday the Eisenhower Ave. corridor will achieve the status of "downtown" but as of 2015 "downtown" still means downtown DC.

[Old Guard]

Originally Posted by r small

I don't know of anyone who refers to the Roslyn-Clarendon-Ballston corridor as Arlington's "downtown". If you told a native Arlingtonian that you were going to downtown Arlington they'd give you a blank stare. Same with Alexandria, my home town. We'll say things like "I'm going into town" or maybe "I'm going into Old Town" but never "I'm going downtown". Maybe someday the Eisenhower Ave. corridor will achieve the status of "downtown" but as of 2015 "downtown" still means downtown DC.

This is my experience as well. I am not sure what the need it to brand a place as a downtown anyway. It is what it is and it sounds like they are trying to make it better and doing a good job at it.

As for the amount of office space in McClean how much of it is directly dependent on the proximity to DC?