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My major concern at this point is the tiger cubs. Whatever the outcome of all of this, I certainly do not want to hear that the tigers are breeding. Since GWC seems content to let animals 'do what animals do,' the city or another group needs to step in and provide money if necessary to make sure that one or both of these cubs is spayed or neutered.
I believe the Steve Corbett will be discussing the zoo on his program today between 3 and 7pm, on 103.1 FM.
My major concern at this point is the tiger cubs. Whatever the outcome of all of this, I certainly do not want to hear that the tigers are breeding. Since GWC seems content to let animals 'do what animals do,' the city or another group needs to step in and provide money if necessary to make sure that one or both of these cubs is spayed or neutered.
I believe the Steve Corbett will be discussing the zoo on his program today between 3 and 7pm, on 103.1 FM.
I, too, am worried that the GWC will try to breed the tiger cubs. However, I just checked today on how long we might have before that would be possible. According to what I've found so far (I've gotten slightly different numbers from several different sources), it seems that the tigers will not reach sexual maturity for some time--the female at about 3 to 3 1/2 years old, and the male at about 4 to 5 years old. (Right now the cubs are only a few months old.) So, while tiger breeding definitely **is** a long-term concern, I think there are other much more immediate concerns at the GWC (like safety issues, animal care issues, etc.). Let's hope we can get this whole situation in better shape long before the cubs can produce any more cubs!!!!
Some time ago a volunteer from GWC posted a URL for the zoo website. I'm not looking for Homepage of Genesis Wildlife Sanctuary. I could swear there was a website like www.nayaugzoo.com (broken link). Does anyone remember?
It's odd to me that they would refute the idea of being a zoo yet build a website with zoo in its URL.
It's odd to me that they would refute the idea of being a zoo yet build a website with zoo in its URL.
Thanks
It's "odd" to me too, especially since the name of this site also implies that the zoo belongs to or is at least affiliated with the city. Here's the URL:
The above site has recently added a couple of videos: one of the new tiger cubs, and one (from 2007, I believe) of Miller talking about how much it costs to run the zoo.
BTW, the above site shows a rainforest sort of setting with a bunch of inset photos of animals--none of the animals in those photos actually live at the GWC (thank goodness). As far as I can tell, they're pics that came from various places on the Internet. This site also lifted, almost word-for-word, a bunch of info on Toni the elephant from the National Zoo's website. I'm not exactly sure why they thought it was a great idea to remind folks about poor Toni and her sad history when promoting a zoo (or "sanctuary") that isn't any better than the old place was: go figure. Finally, their "Support the Scranton Zoo" page has no address to which donations can be sent. Go figure again.
The Scranton Zoo. wierd. Their words and actions do not compliment each other.
The recent discussions about the tiger cubs breeding seemed a little radical or paranoid to me. Surely that is where Margaret Miller would draw the line in being an irresponsible "sanctuary" manager. I was reading back in some older posts and was very distressed to see that she allowed two ring-tailed lemurs to breed earlier this year. I find that unacceptable. Now I see your fears about the tigers breeding are not so off base!
The Scranton Zoo. wierd. Their words and actions do not compliment each other.
The recent discussions about the tiger cubs breeding seemed a little radical or paranoid to me. Surely that is where Margaret Miller would draw the line in being an irresponsible "sanctuary" manager. I was reading back in some older posts and was very distressed to see that she allowed two ring-tailed lemurs to breed earlier this year. I find that unacceptable. Now I see your fears about the tigers breeding are not so off base!
Sorry about that--sometimes I forget that a lot of readers were not here for the earlier discussions we've had on this issue.
Anyway, the GWC definitely allowed a pair of genet cats to breed; there was a story about it in the Times/Trib on Mar. 21, 2005. No one knew for certain that the female genet cat was pregnant (I think the pregnancy was described as "suspected"). An emergency C-section had to be performed when the genet cat's water broke and the baby was being delivered tail-first. (The story in the Times/Trib re this incident made me wonder exactly how much veterinary care was provided for the genet cat.)
Re the lemurs, I haven't been able to actually document that the lemurs were allowed to breed, but there is a lot of evidence for it. The center has a number of young lemurs, picture captions at their website (the old one, not the Scranton Zoo site) show young lemurs and refer to two of the adults as "Momma & Poppa" (or maybe it was "Mom & Dad"--same idea), a recent letter to the editor in the Times/Trib mentioned a child being allowed to hold a "newborn baby primate" (maybe a lemur?), and at one point (I think it was some time last winter) I called the center and asked if they had any baby animals and a volunteer told me that they didn't have any at the time, but that "the lemurs have babies pretty much every spring." A friend of mine asked Ms. Miller if the lemurs had been allowed to breed, and Ms. Miller told her that they had not been allowed to breed, but rather that the females had "arrived pregnant." Hmmmmm..... I tried checking gestation periods for lemurs to determine if this scenario was even possible, but unfortunately I couldn't get hard and fast dates for the arrival of the adult female lemurs at the center, so that method of checking Ms. Miller's explanation didn't work out. Draw your own conclusions.
According to the research I've done, tigers are generally solitary animals except when breeding or raising young. As far as I know, there is no particular need to get a pair of these animals (i.e. since they are not particularly social animals, they do not require the presence of additional members of their species in order to be psychologically healthy). Nevertheless, Ms. Miller got not one, but two tigers--a male and a female. And she did mention, in a video interview at the Times/Trib site, that the tigers had different parents so were not brother and sister. (Uh oh.) Add the GWC's history to all of this, and I think it's reasonable to be worried about what Ms. Miller's long-term plans re breeding more tigers might be. Fortunately, as I said in a recent post, we evidently don't have to worry about this for a while yet, as it takes several years for the tigers to become sexually mature.
So I just had to go and see with my own eyes. My husband and I went to Genesis this afternoon. Very very sad on so many levels. From what I can see the tiger cubs are not allowed outside. The door to the outdoor pen was slightly ajar but tied off preventing them from leaving the indoor pen. One of the cubs was scratching desperately, pacing near the door, trying to squeeze his head through. Later, both tiger cubs were pacing restlessly back and forth in front of the bars. Is that not a sign of unhappiness?
The cages are abysmally overcrowded and tiny. And the smell! There are signs everywhere about the odorsphere. But really, I've never experienced anything like it. However, the highlight came when a macaque named Mario reached through the bars, unlocked the cage and walked right out followed by his two companions. I saw this with my own eyes and had a hunch that wasn't supposed to happen so I just stood by and waited to see what would happen. The gang of macaques was in an enclosed area between the glass walls and the cages. The zoo was pretty crowded so someone must have tipped off a volunteer because she suddenly went running up and down the hallway, hands waving in the air, screaming on the top of her lungs, "Everyone out, out! Get out!" Margaret Miller appeared from a back office and told the volunteer to calm down and that people could stay. But the entrance and exit to the zoo were closed. Margaret and her staff quickly coaxed two of the animals back into the cage but Mario was intent on staying out. Who the hell can blame him?
I stayed for about 45 minutes and watched the staff trying to convince a very unwilling and unhappy Mario go back into his cage. They lured him with a bottle of coke, lollipops, candy and CIGARETTES! I left before they got him back in the cage. But NOT before I had a very informative conversation with one of the volunteers.
Me: So the ring-tailed lemurs, are they a family?
Vol: Yes, brother, sister, what not.
Me: So is it Mother Father and children?
Vol: Yes
Me: Isn't that inbreeding?
Vol: When pappa wants to breed, pappa's going to breed with whoever is there.
Me: When's the last time they had babies.
Vol: We had a baby not too long ago, but the mother injured it and it died. She was not a nice mamma.
Me: Well, I hope mamma is spade now.
Vol: No, you don't really do that anymore. You don't spade or declaw cats anymore. The laws have changed and are more strict.
Me: Okay, so the tiger cubs. There's a male and female. Will they be fixed?
Vol: No *insert incredulous tone here* we don't do that.
Me: So won't they breed?
Vol: No, they're brother and sister. They won't mate with each other.
Me: But wait, you just said that the brother and sister lemurs bred.
Vol: They're different species.
Needless to say, I'm very disturbed right now. Based on misinformation I've heard from other volunteers - namely "the tiger cubs were bred for conservation." I don't know if I trust the info from the woman I spoke with this afternoon. I'm about to start researching all of this so I can get answers. The issue of any animal at Genesis being allowed to breed is unacceptable and needs to be addressed.
So I just had to go and see with my own eyes. My husband and I went to Genesis this afternoon. Very very sad on so many levels. From what I can see the tiger cubs are not allowed outside. The door to the outdoor pen was slightly ajar but tied off preventing them from leaving the indoor pen. One of the cubs was scratching desperately, pacing near the door, trying to squeeze his head through. Later, both tiger cubs were pacing restlessly back and forth in front of the bars. Is that not a sign of unhappiness?
The cages are abysmally overcrowded and tiny. And the smell! There are signs everywhere about the odorsphere. But really, I've never experienced anything like it. However, the highlight came when a macaque named Mario reached through the bars, unlocked the cage and walked right out followed by his two companions. I saw this with my own eyes and had a hunch that wasn't supposed to happen so I just stood by and waited to see what would happen. The gang of macaques was in an enclosed area between the glass walls and the cages. The zoo was pretty crowded so someone must have tipped off a volunteer because she suddenly went running up and down the hallway, hands waving in the air, screaming on the top of her lungs, "Everyone out, out! Get out!" Margaret Miller appeared from a back office and told the volunteer to calm down and that people could stay. But the entrance and exit to the zoo were closed. Margaret and her staff quickly coaxed two of the animals back into the cage but Mario was intent on staying out. Who the hell can blame him?
I stayed for about 45 minutes and watched the staff trying to convince a very unwilling and unhappy Mario go back into his cage. They lured him with a bottle of coke, lollipops, candy and CIGARETTES! I left before they got him back in the cage. But NOT before I had a very informative conversation with one of the volunteers.
Me: So the ring-tailed lemurs, are they a family?
Vol: Yes, brother, sister, what not.
Me: So is it Mother Father and children?
Vol: Yes
Me: Isn't that inbreeding?
Vol: When pappa wants to breed, pappa's going to breed with whoever is there.
Me: When's the last time they had babies.
Vol: We had a baby not too long ago, but the mother injured it and it died. She was not a nice mamma.
Me: Well, I hope mamma is spade now.
Vol: No, you don't really do that anymore. You don't spade or declaw cats anymore. The laws have changed and are more strict.
Me: Okay, so the tiger cubs. There's a male and female. Will they be fixed?
Vol: No *insert incredulous tone here* we don't do that.
Me: So won't they breed?
Vol: No, they're brother and sister. They won't mate with each other.
Me: But wait, you just said that the brother and sister lemurs bred.
Vol: They're different species.
Needless to say, I'm very disturbed right now. Based on misinformation I've heard from other volunteers - namely "the tiger cubs were bred for conservation." I don't know if I trust the info from the woman I spoke with this afternoon. I'm about to start researching all of this so I can get answers. The issue of any animal at Genesis being allowed to breed is unacceptable and needs to be addressed.
Gee, you had such an interesting visit to the Genesis Wildlife Center!
Thanks very much for going to the center to check it out for yourself and thanks also for posting the above.
Re the tiger cubs' pacing: that is something one sees a lot in zoos, but according to what I've read, it would not be considered normal behavior--it's not something they would normally do in the wild. Having a roomy, mentally stimulating environment that is as close as possible to the cubs' natural environment would tend to reduce abnormal behaviors like pacing.
Re the Mario incident: If this were an isolated incident I would be only mildly concerned, because even at a great zoo/sanctuary weird stuff can happen from time to time. Unfortunately, set in the larger context of what we know about the GWC, this is just one more piece of evidence that the center is not being properly managed, to say the least. From the escape itself, to the panicked reaction of the volunteer, to the attempt to lure Mario with candy (and cigarettes!!! were they candy cigarettes???), to the closed exits (were the doors just closed or was one or more of them locked????), it's really not a good scene. (BTW, it sounds as if the macaques were out of their cage but were not in direct contact with the public. Is that correct?) Mario is clearly not under the staff's control. One wonders what else is not under their control. Primates can be quite dangerous, and needless to say, the big cats can be deadly. Also, employees and volunteers should be trained (and even drilled) on how to handle emergencies so that if something bad should happen everyone would know immediately what he/she is supposed to do. The center has already had one small fire. I hope everyone there knows what to do in the event of another fire or some similar problem!!!! What if the problem today had been a fire, the volunteer had panicked, the exits had been closed, and all of this while the center was full of visitors?
Re the conversation with the volunteer: let's see--the only thing in that whole thing that makes any sense to me at all is the statement that modern zoos don't declaw their big cats. As far as I know that is correct. As for the rest of the information the volunteer gave you, what a mess. One wonders what sort of "knowledge" this volunteer might impart to impressionable young children who would believe every word of it without question. The charitable way to interpret the volunteer's responses would be to say that she was "confused." Of course, she may also have been lying. Or, she may have been confused **and** lying. You are absolutely right not to blindly trust the info the volunteer gave you!!!
Re the GWC in general: Someone please help me out--I'm running out of ways to say "unbelievable!"
Again, Cat Girl, thanks for your concern about the GWC and for telling us of your experiences there. As more people become concerned about this issue and more people write the paper and the mayor, and more people who have witnessed potentially unsafe or negligent situations contact the USDA, it will become more likely that the situation will finally be improved. At the very least, Margaret Miller should not bring any more animals into the center, and the city should subject the entire operation to some sort of safety review before a staff member, volunteer, or visitor to the center gets injured or even killed.
I'm really not impressed with the "zoo" at nay aug park. Yes there is an admission charge plus a bin for food contributions. Nay Aug isn't meant to have a zoo.
Scrantonluna--I just wanted to let you know that I have not forgotten about your question concerning the cost of adequate enclosures for the animals. I've been going through my "zoo" files and I have found some info on enclosures recently constructed at the Binghamton Zoo. Right now, the info is sort of disorganized: I'll try to put something together and post it for you in next couple of days.
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zoo website?
