Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That's a sad fact for many of us. Unless we buy in a transitional area early and wait/hope for things there to improve, we're priced out of the urban revival. Can anyone else see a day when the rich people live in the city centers and the poor folks are forced into the suburbs? What a reversal that is!
Interesting question Cooperwx. I've noticed that in many European cities it's the poorer folks who live outside the city or on the edges while the wealthier ones live closer to the city center. When I mentioned that in the U.S. this is generally not the rule they were surprised that the poorer Americans can afford to live in the central city.
It was hard to explain this trend to them since our welfare system (welfare for the poor, that is, which subsidizes housing, food, etc.) is not the same as their "safety-net" for all citizens (along with much higher taxes, of course).
Historically, especially since WWII ended, Americans from the middle-classes have preferred to live in the suburbs, believing they would be insulated from the crime, congestion and other woes of urban living. Immigrants settled in cities and then slowly drifted away as the next generations became more educated, skilled or wealthier.
As other posters have noted, there's a reversal of this trend in many places now, with Americans seemingly more willing to live in cities again. However, as you noted, it's getting expensive to afford city rentals/condos and the middle classes might be unable to return to city life. This is already happening in Manhattan, San Francisco, Boston and Portland from what I've seen.
Guess you don't get out of upstate New York too often. Urban revival throughout the United States is definitely not just in its "early stages," and it's not just in "some areas" of the country. It's happening, literally, all over the US, and it's been going on for years now...especially in the "big cities" where you claim that the majority of people live 1-2 hours away. Sorry, but that's just incorrect.
Young people, especially, have been moving closer to center cities for the past few years, where new condos have been built and old apartments/condos have been converted, and they can have easier access to their jobs, entertainment, etc. Almost every city I've visited over the past 5 or 6 years has a "transitional" area or areas close to uptown/downtown, where older, run-down, crime-ridden buildings and developments have been torn down, and shiny new housing developments, entertainments venues, and shopping complexes have been built in their place. San Diego, Phoenix, Seattle, Charlotte, Raleigh, many places in South Florida, Indianapolis, Chicago, Atlanta, and Houston are all good examples of this urban revitalization. Of course, a lot of people still live in the suburbs of cities across the country, but more and more people have been moving closer to urban areas of town, and they've been doing it for a while now.
Nacht is right...you haven't "predicted" anything that isn't already happening all over.
If you read my 2nd post you'll see I adjusted my "prediction" and said, yes, it is happening but NOT happening to the degree it needs to. And moving closer to the cities? Explain the massive growth in the outskirts of cities that is still going on....although you like to project an attitude of all knowing, there are areas that are not reviving like the ones you posted. Actually, you picked all hotspots which are the obvious; try stepping away from the major locations and take a look at the cities that aren't at the top of the heap.....they are still rotting while the masses are running for the suburbs and beyond. But you knew that, right?
Last edited by Fallingwater79; 04-29-2007 at 05:32 PM..
You are not alone in feeling this way. People that move to a new area, let alone a new state, dont have a connection to the area. The growth particulary in the Lake Norman area, is insane. Traffic is terrible. The area is pretty, and is in a close proximity to Charlotte, I understand why people would want to move here. Its getting expensive, too much for me it seems.
Whenever I hear newcomers say "I love it here in the South/NC". I cant help but think to myself you are not really in the South or NC. You are in the middle of some big box store cookie cutter house suburb living side by side people not from the South that just happened to be plopped down in a state known as NC.
Even grass roots sports like NASCAR have been completely commercialized, to me, not southern anymore. There are still places in NC untouched by growth and probably will remain that way, but not where everyone wants to live.
You know I'm from the North, and I couldn't agree with you more on every single point you made. My story about being here is different, my deceased husband was born and raised in Charlotte. He left to move to my small town in Ohio. He was still recovering from Viet Nam, and needed to get to a farm town, I'll leave it at that. Anyway, he met me in Ohio, married and he stayed there until he died (I did have his ashes taken to Top Sail Island though).
He was a wounded medically and mentally Southern born son. And I nursed him back with a small town mentality, farms, rolling hills, and quiet. I started coming to Charlotte with him right before we married in 1978. It twas' a beautiful town....now? It stuns me as to what has happened. I ended up down here because our only child moved down after college graduation to be with his relatives here, and for a job. So, in some ways, I feel I have a right to be here, I nursed and nutured one of your own, but still I feel sometimes so badly for the Charlotteans, and what's happened to their own town. Suburban sprawl, homes getting to expensive for some, it's as if they are being pushed out of their hometown. I'd know how I feel if that happened in my little hometown, I'd be resentful. So for us that are here in too many droves I apologize. I feel your pain, and if I could find a job back home, I'd go back, but I can't.
And don't EVEN get me started on what they've done to Nascar. Even though I am from the North, I've followed the sport, well I followed Dale Earnhardt seniors whole career, so it has been many years I watched.
I hate the COT cars, what a joke.
If you read my 2nd post you'll see I adjusted my "prediction" and said, yes, it is happening but NOT happening to the degree it needs to. And moving closer to the cities? Explain the massive growth in the outskirts of cities that is still going on....although you like to project an attitude of all knowing, there are areas that are not reviving like the ones you posted. Actually, you picked all hotspots which are the obvious; try stepping away from the major locations and take a look at the cities that aren't at the top of the heap.....they are still rotting while the masses are running for the suburbs and beyond. But you knew that, right?
It's not happening to the degree it "needs to"? What degree is that? Are you suggesting that EVERYONE should move to urban areas, and that we should erradicate suburbs? Please. Urban revitalization is happening all over the country, and huge numbers of people are moving into revitalized urban areas in cities large and small. What do you want? A mass exodus from the suburbs, into the cities? Clearly, that will never happen. Urban revitalization is happening sufficiently in many places, for anyone with realistic standards. It's not an overnight process. It takes time to convince people of a revived urban area's "new appeal."
Yes, there ARE MANY people moving closer to the cities, in a multitude of locations across the country, and yes, numerous people are also moving to the suburbs, and land is being developed on the outskirts of some cities, to cause the phenomenon known as "suburban sprawl." Like I said, NOT EVERYONE is going to choose to move into urban areas, now or ever. There are and will ALWAYS be a lot of people who choose to live in the suburbs for various reasons. Many of those people want new houses, so they buy in the newer suburbs, further out from the cities' centers. That does not detract from the fact that there are ALSO NUMEROUS people moving into newly revitalized, urban areas of a number of large and small cities across the country, including the same cities where a number of people continue to move further out into the suburbs. Just because an area is experiencing suburban sprawl, does not mean that it is not ALSO experiencing urban revitalization. Take Charlotte, for instance. It is certainly currently experiencing sprawl, but at the same time, there is a huge project in action to revitalize the uptown area, including new condos, shopping, restaurants...the works. Same thing with Phoenix. Suburban sprawl and urban revitalization are not mutually exclusive...cities can (and do) have both.
I don't project an attitude of all-knowing. I just say what I know. There's a difference. Just because you don't agree with what I'm saying, or you don't comprehend it, does not mean that I am presuming to know everything.
I chose "all hot spots"? Since when is Indianapolis a "hot spot"? Anyway, in my previous post I figured I would just throw out the obvious cities where urban revitalization has been occurring for a number of years, because you didn't seem to realize that urban revival was already happening in a lot of places. Many of the cities I mentioned were big cities, because you had mentioned that most big cities' residents live 1-2 hours away, which just isn't true. Most big cities' residents live within a half-hour of the city, and many of their residents live within the urban cores. Sure, there are people that live further out from most city centers, in the exurbs. But those that choose to live in suburbs an hour or more from the urban centers certainly don't comprise the majority of the cities' residents. Also, traffic, in some cities like LA and Atlanta, make commutes for some suburban residents longer than a half-hour, but the MAJORITY of residents certainly don't live 1-2 hours away from most big cities, as you suggested they do.
Since you feel the cities I mentioned are "the obvious," I'll mention more cities that are currently experiencing (or have already undergone recent) urban revitalization, that aren't "at the top of the heap." How about Milwaukee, Boston, St. Louis, Richmond, and Pittsburgh? How about Portland, Minneapolis, Hartford, Louisville, and Tucson? Are they "the obvious"? How about Roanoke (VA), Manchester (VT), Brea (CA), Middletown (CT), Lawrence (KS), Peterborough (NH), Lansing (MI), Chapel Hill (NC), Greensboro (NC), Greenville (NC), Morehead City (NC), and Wilmington (NC)? Are they "at the top of the heap"?
Many cities, LARGE AND SMALL, across the country have been trying to revitalize their urban centers for years now, and they'll continue to do so in the future. Of course there are still areas that have not (yet) experienced urban revivial, but that doesn't mean they are all doomed to "rot," as you so eloquently put it. Surely you don't expect EVERY city in America to revitalize its downtown area, and that the suburbs should be abolished? Some cities, for whatever reason, don't feel the need to, or don't have the funds to revitalize their urban centers. That doesn't mean it isn't happening in A LOT of cities, all over the country. Just because you haven't personally witnessed it in your own town, or it hasn't happened in your city yet, does not mean that most cities in the US are "rotting while the masses are running for the suburbs." There will always be people moving to the suburbs. No amount of urban revitalization will change that...at least not in the foreseeable future. That doesn't mean that people aren't flocking to the city centers in huge numbers, buying up new and refurbished condoes and townhomes in both large and small cities. Try getting out of your city once in a while, and you'll witness it happening almost everywhere...northeast, southeast,mid-Atlantic, midwest, southwest, northwest. Or better yet, read cnn.money.com, forbes.com, or bankrate.com sometime. They post various articles on this very subject, almost daily.
As I mentioned previously, you haven't predicted anything that isn't already happening, whether or not it's happening to the degree that YOU find acceptable.
this thread has gotten way off topic there is nothing in last several posts relating to North carolina least mention NC cities for your for or agaisnt arguments.
This discussion was originally about people in NC coping with the growth that is happening here. If you don't live here or haven't been here, what can one really contribute to this regional discussion?
I would like to know if AOYAS has ever been to North Carolina or Charlotte or any other of the NC cities she mentions in her post? From posts, it seems not.
By the way, urban renewal began in Wilmington in the late 1970s/early 1980s. It's not a recent thing, AOYAS. I witnessed it. It's been a long, hard process.
Suburban sprawl in Wilmington/New Hanover extending to Brunswick/Pender is horrible and is pretty recent. When you see what used to be beautiful countryside and green space turn into ugly cookie cutter home developments, all around you, you'll know what coping with growth in NC is all about.
When you've lived here, done that, then you'll get your T-shirt, too.
You aren't telling most of us things we don't know. You assume people here are ignorant just b/c of a simple comment taken totally out of context.
For instance, there is urban renewal in Raleigh --- but NOT in certain areas.
Certain areas are pretty much rotting. Also, there are areas in Wilmington just like that ----- blocks from downtown "urban renewal" that most people would never live b/c of drugs, murder, prostitution --- heck, people have even gotten robbed/shot in the good parts of downtown Wilmington in the past year or two. Take a look at the Wilmington discussions about where NOT to live in downtown.
I'm just trying to be helpful and help you comprehend things here in NC.
I really am!!!
By the way -- how can you say most people live within 1/2 hour of a big city. Where did that statistic come from? I'm really curious about your source for information.
this thread has gotten way off topic there is nothing in last several posts relating to North carolina least mention NC cities for your for or agaisnt arguments.
Yes, I agree and I believe it began with a reference to "whining" about what's happening in NC and digressed rapidly from that point on. I personally will refrain from posting any further as it's akin to spinning tires in mud: a lot of work that gets you nowhere..... We now return to the regularly scheduled thread (:
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I feel your pain, and if I could find a job back home, I'd go back, but I can't. 
