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Note - I’ve started this in the retirement forum for it involves the dynamics of those in their retirement ages one of whom has lost a long-term spouse. It is my (never-married in my 60s) “non-romantic relationship” but another’s (a slightly older widower) hoped for “romantic relationship” plus then I suppose there is also the psychology forum. Where’s a thread to go?
DD and I are about to leave for a complicated, long overseas trip. An issue arose that I cannot get out of my mind but then I have neither the time nor inclination to discuss it with mutual friends or wade through a long backstory with others (which is what would happen).
This is the type of issue for which there’s no clear answer, but I need to figure out how to “classify” it so I can put it aside for now. Friends have told me it’s “good” of me to have responded as I’ve done but now that I’m ready to move on does that make me now the opposite, selfish and “bad.”? Or perhaps this is just a tale of the essential mismatch when folks don’t want the same things.
The "problem," in brief, is a kind, intelligent, attractive former boyfriend who lost his second wife several years back. Our connection resumed after a year or so with monthly lunches. A few years later after one lunch, he surprised me with a proposal for a lifelong permanent relationship. I demurred; we settled back into the lunches. He’s not been really satisfied with that and, I fear, hoped for a eventual change but the situation was stable until he was temporarily impaired and housebound for the last several weeks.
My friend is highly social and very involved in the community and with his extended family. A family member lives with him and provided daily care during this episode. Many local friends visited as did I although less frequently due to the long distance between our homes.
Sensing his need (well he’d ask too), for weeks I telephoned almost every day even though I absolutely hate the medium, couldn’t hear him clearly, and frankly the calls were highlighting our differences in a way not that positive. He’s now made a full recovery although remains restricted to the house for a bit longer and then must stay relatively inactive to avoid a re-occurence until fully healed.
Swamped, I figured that with his recovery perhaps I could now graduate from the phone calls that - rightly or wrongly - were a source of enough stress that I've been coming down with all sorts of odd inflammatory ailments that are a first. The thought of then coping with these while traveling became a concern and so on. A return to our usual texts and e-mails would be fine.
So I bit the bullet and said … well, I guess it’s become pretty clear that I hate talking on the phone. He agreed; it *had* become clear. I emphasized this was a long standing dislike (we’d never before used the phone regularly), is not atypical of introverts (true), and was not focused solely on him (also true).
My reaction is intensified by the concern that he cannot not help but put me in the role of his former spouse, for theirs had been a good marriage and she is much missed. I get that having someone to tell about your day is important. He loves to tell stories - that if not of interest really aren’t that problematic in person but more problematic when they pop into your home every night. We connect but then we don't ...
Here, I will introduce enough backstory to say that had we entered into SO-style relationship, my role would have been primarily functional (no rediscovered long-lost love although he’d enjoy the romance). I do *not* have the type of personality he admires for his attraction is the prior history … mutual friends … my appearance … common interests. This works for him but his profound extroversion paired with my introversion leaves me soon longing for space and quiet.
The mechanics of a possible relationship (none of which he considered) were also lousy … for he decidedly would *not* have fit into my living situation (a then teenage daughter still at home in an open concept floor plan that did *not* promote the introduction of a romantic other. And there were a bunch more issues (but of course!).
The above don't marr a friendship but the surrogate wife-phone call situation tended bring them to the forefront. Not good. Hence some resentment on my part ... but then he's ill ... phones are pain ... the whole shebang.
My not keeping up the front - he HAD been trying to introduce phone calls for some time - well maybe a new tension was inevitable. But dang it all. Time to let this go ... but obviously I'm not quite there yet. We've had a connection failure, maybe even a friendship failure.
I know ... there is NOT a clear question, which is why I underlined the third paragraph. I've been feeling like a bloody creep for not wanting to continue to call a friend every day who is now well on the way to recovery.
Even writing out that post helped - I started to leave it as a draft but decided that to actually send it might be a plus.
Well, I don't see that you have an obligation to call every day. Especially since you were only doing it because he was ill... and really how much longer do you need to do that? It isn't like you are abandoning him. He wants more from the friendship than you do. That isn't your fault, as you have been clear that there will not be more.
Why do you even need to classify your dislike of talking on the phone. It’s not your thing and you are not obligated. While he was ill you were a supportive friend but it seems to me you are battling his expectations or desire for more.
People in their 60s haven't learned that they don't have to do anything they don't want to do? That they have personal choice and don't need to feel bad about personal decisions?
I know ... there is NOT a clear question, which is why I underlined the third paragraph. I've been feeling like a bloody creep for not wanting to continue to call a friend every day who is now well on the way to recovery.
Even writing out that post helped - I started to leave it as a draft but decided that to actually send it might be a plus.
It's now less in my head and more on paper.
That's to the good.
Here's what I get from this.
You've NEVER had the same level of attraction/love for him, that he has/had for you. You let him know that early on, when he proposed.
Now, sounds like he wants to squeeze you into a wife role, even though you already made it clear you weren't interested in that.
Now, he's kind of trying to guilt you into a relationship, that you've told him more than once, that you don't want. Clearly, he's not hearing you on this, or is choosing to disregard it.
Granted, he's lonely. But you've told him more than once you weren't interested in being caretaker/companion/wife. I think you have a right to be resentful of him guilting you/putting pressure on you for wanting more. And honestly, it sounds like you're tired of it all, and tired of him. I say, "Let him go."
People in their 60s haven't learned that they don't have to do anything they don't want to do? That they have personal choice and don't need to feel bad about personal decisions?
I think that's the point of why she wrote her title the way she did. I think she pretty much DOES know what she wants, but she feels like she's expected (by the guy) to compromise herself and somehow 'deal' when it's a situation that she doesn't WANT to deal.
Thus, she's wondering if it's because she's older, and doesn't want to bend.
People in their 60s haven't learned that they don't have to do anything they don't want to do? That they have personal choice and don't need to feel bad about personal decisions?
Now we're getting at it. What if the answer is no or perhaps maybe. Not terribly religious here but there is the mitzvah in Judaism and good works in Christianity and then merit in Buddhist ethics. I mentioned in that admittedly confusing post that I originally dashed off only for myself that a couple of friends told me I was a "good" person for hanging in there with the phone calls. Does not then make me "bad."
After all, we're only talking about a measly daily phone call for perhaps an hour or so. That there are added layers to that call is relevant and heightens my response, yes. But I can also see the opposing view - here is someone who has experienced great tragedy in his life with more than a little fortitude ... who works hard to himself lead a good life ... who has accepted all the boundaries that I've set ... and now would like more flexibility for although he's about recovered he is still stuck at home.
Sure I made it (called with increasingly less "satisfying" calls) for about 5 weeks but I really now to need stop *because* I'm soon leaving for quite a while. He probably thinks it makes sense to continue to right up to the departure. (No, but won't try to explain why here.)
I have no doubt that for him that phone call is a sign of caring, of my being willing to go beyond either the rigidity of personality or age.
Again, my reluctance actually is based on more than those factors - and some are his actions that make me feel "lesser," "hurt," invaded." But what purpose would pointing that out serve for I've already nixed moving beyond friendship?
It is my observation that folks don't change much at some point (or perhaps even ever once personalities form.) The most we can sometimes do is to give each other a break - and I quite get his point of view that he's not getting a break from me.
He's always lived as a pair (until recently); I as a single (and like it that way). Not so easy for the two to easily understand each other after decades of reinforcement.
The most I'm trying to get for myself right now is not to feel like crap.
But I'm not totally willing to absolve myself of all responsibility for the feelings of another.
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