Developing Upstate New York (Buffalo, Rochester: home, schools, community college)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I just find it rather humorous that NewYorkBorn says us upstaters spend "hours commuting" when, in reality, we have the shortest commute times in the nation.
Yeah, commutes are probably the least of our concerns up here. I believe that many people walk to work in some Upstate metros, to the point where some of these areas have some of the highest percentage of people that walk to work in the country. Here's some interesting information: List of U.S. cities with high transit ridership
Remember what I said, people upstate live and think differently. We are not interested in being NYC. A lot of residents may like visiting NYC (and I know quite a few who hate going to places like NYC and LA), but they have no interest living in overpopulated, dense cities. We like our cars and trucks (snow certainly plays a role in that), we like space, we like our natural landscape. I think you're overestimating the public transportation needs and general support from upstate New Yorkers. We do not have a transportation problem (Getting around is rather easy). We have an economic and jobs problem. People who grow up here, go to college, then have to go to other places like a NYC or down south to find good jobs.
You keep comparing NYC to the upstate. These two worlds couldn't be farther apart.
I think you need to go back and read my original post as well as the thread "ending the high cost of living in the 5 boroughs of NYC" in the NYC forum. You will notice where I said that upstate NY needs to develop its own identity....not NYC's identity! Nobody is suggesting that upstate NY try to be NYC.....I do not think there will ever be another NYC, nor do I believe there should be another NYC.....it is unique because there is nothing else like it!
I am not talking about upstate NY residents having a problem with transportation.....obviously as a current upstate NY resident you are managing fine with the transportation you already have. But to attract new companies and residents there would need to be a better transportation system and more jobs. Newcomers would want amenities so that they would not have to be dependent on a car. Car dependence, the feeling of isolation from the activities in NYC and lack of jobs in the upstate NY region are the things I have heard people say are the reasons that they would not live there unless those things change. You are having a problem comprehending what I am saying. Talking about development that would bring new residents, new companies and more revenue to upstate NY...while at the same time creating a more balanced population here in NYC.
This discussion is about development and solutions that will make the region a more attractive place to live for those who would like to move to upstate NY.
I mean what region could not use more money?
Last edited by NewYorkBorn; 07-11-2011 at 09:18 AM..
You are only one person! If you like having to depend on a car then good for you.
There are a lot of other people who have decided not to live in the upstate NY region because they look at it as being too isolated, car dependent and lacks employment.
Currently there are about 11,300 more jobs in Rochester than last year. Despite losing over 50,000 jobs at Kodak and 8,000 at Xerox, Rochester has replaced most all of them. Metro Rochester has grown and continues to grow in every census. Where do you get your "facts"?
Newcomers would want amenities so that they would not have to be dependent on a car. Car dependence, the feeling of isolation from the activities in NYC and lack of jobs in the upstate NY region are the things I have heard people say are the reasons that they would not live there unless those things change.
??? on the bolded part.
You are describing why some people, in NYC, may not want to relocate to upstate NY. I'm not sure attracting NYCers should be the focus of upstate, however. I agree with you that upstate should be doing more to attract business & people...but I'm not sure trying to "out-NYC, NYC" is the right approach.
Also, trying to build mass transit (even at a scaled down level) to mirror an NYC lifestyle is simply not going to happen without jobs, people moving, and the subsequent tax revenue generated by that. Upstate will never have this type of setup, and as you pointed out, there will only ever be 1 NYC.
Currently there are about 11,300 more jobs in Rochester than last year. Despite losing over 50,000 jobs at Kodak and 8,000 at Xerox, Rochester has replaced most all of them. Metro Rochester has grown and continues to grow in every census. Where do you get your "facts"?
He doesn't, as evidenced by his clearly ignorant posts and claiming we upstaters spend hours commuting, which still gives me a chuckle.
I do not personally feel that it is isolated....but there are others who I have spoken to that mention isolation along with lack of jobs and not having better access to NYC as the reason they will not live there.
Personally I think it is a beautiful place and with some more development could attract new people and business's which could be good for everyone.
Better access to NYC? What does that mean? Getting to and from NYC is very affordable and easy with the number of flights at each of the airports upstate. Driving through the state, all the way from Buffalo, is not bad at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewYorkBorn
I think you need to go back and read my original post as well as the thread "ending the high cost of living in the 5 boroughs of NYC" in the NYC forum. You will notice where I said that upstate NY needs to develop its own identity....not NYC's identity! Nobody is suggesting that upstate NY try to be NYC.....I do not think there will ever be another NYC, nor do I believe there should be another NYC.....it is unique because there is nothing else like it!
I am not talking about upstate NY residents having a problem with transportation.....obviously as a current upstate NY resident you are managing fine with the transportation you already have. But to attract new companies and residents there would need to be a better transportation system and more jobs. Newcomers would want amenities so that they would not have to be dependent on a car. Car dependence, the feeling of isolation from the activities in NYC and lack of jobs in the upstate NY region are the things I have heard people say are the reasons that they would not live there unless those things change. You are having a problem comprehending what I am saying. Talking about development that would bring new residents, new companies and more revenue to upstate NY...while at the same time creating a more balanced population here in NYC.
This discussion is about development and solutions that will make the region a more attractive place to live for those who would like to move to upstate NY.
I mean what region could not use more money?
You are not comprehending what I'm saying. We have a jobs problem. That is underlined by the fact that tax, control, and regulation problem. Our transportation "problems" would be the envy of nearly every metro area in the country. People who move here tend to be shocked at the ease of commuting and the quality of life that that provides. Upstate NY is not about being a hip, chic, fast-pace kind-of-place like NYC (Not that we don't have nightlife, good restaurants, lots of activities to do). It's a great place for families who like the "American Dream" of a house, land, friendly and open neighbors, and good schools.
You keep arguing that we need to develop our own identity and through development. Then you go on to argue that people would want the amenities, like public transportation so they're not dependent on a car, to move here. So do you want to be like NYC or to develop our identity? If they want those things, why don't they move to cities like NYC instead of upstate? I wouldn't move to NYC and complain about too many skyscrapers, the inability to drive a car in a sane manner, and too many people. I know that is part of what makes it tick and part of what makes it NYC.
There is no way you could be without a car unless you never left outside of a 2-mile radius. Not to mention the long winters here will certainly limit the capabilities of a public transportation system. We are not about density. We are about land, space, and nature. People who move here tend from big, crowded places absolutely love the land and housing options they can get for their dollars. And upstate New Yorkers love their land, natural beauty, and the ability to commute quickly. Trust me, a mass public transportation that we do not have a population to support, would be the biggest waste of money ever. Reform our control, taxes, and regulations so they become more attractive, and you'll start to see more investment by companies and investors quickly.
Currently there are about 11,300 more jobs in Rochester than last year. Despite losing over 50,000 jobs at Kodak and 8,000 at Xerox, Rochester has replaced most all of them. Metro Rochester has grown and continues to grow in every census. Where do you get your "facts"?
The big drivers seem to be University of Rochester and RIT, who are helping push Rochester into "new industries" like high-tech, medicine, and education.
Buffalo-Niagara is seeing the fruits of a medical campus that is driving a big part of our growth. Buffalo also have two big banks in M&T Bank and First Niagara who are growing into big powers. HSBC might be pulling out though.
Currently there are about 11,300 more jobs in Rochester than last year. Despite losing over 50,000 jobs at Kodak and 8,000 at Xerox, Rochester has replaced most all of them. Metro Rochester has grown and continues to grow in every census. Where do you get your "facts"?
They are not my facts....they are the facts of the media outlet that produced the article. I am sure they did not just place Rochester on the list of dying cities without investigating what is happening there.
Better access to NYC? What does that mean? Getting to and from NYC is very affordable and easy with the number of flights at each of the airports upstate. Driving through the state, all the way from Buffalo, is not bad at all.
You are not comprehending what I'm saying. We have a jobs problem. That is underlined by the fact that tax, control, and regulation problem. Our transportation "problems" would be the envy of nearly every metro area in the country. People who move here tend to be shocked at the ease of commuting and the quality of life that that provides. Upstate NY is not about being a hip, chic, fast-pace kind-of-place like NYC (Not that we don't have nightlife, good restaurants, lots of activities to do). It's a great place for families who like the "American Dream" of a house, land, friendly and open neighbors, and good schools.
You keep arguing that we need to develop our own identity and through development. Then you go on to argue that people would want the amenities, like public transportation so they're not dependent on a car, to move here. So do you want to be like NYC or to develop our identity? If they want those things, why don't they move to cities like NYC instead of upstate? I wouldn't move to NYC and complain about too many skyscrapers, the inability to drive a car in a sane manner, and too many people. I know that is part of what makes it tick and part of what makes it NYC.
There is no way you could be without a car unless you never left outside of a 2-mile radius. Not to mention the long winters here will certainly limit the capabilities of a public transportation system. We are not about density. We are about land, space, and nature. People who move here tend from big, crowded places absolutely love the land and housing options they can get for their dollars. And upstate New Yorkers love their land, natural beauty, and the ability to commute quickly. Trust me, a mass public transportation that we do not have a population to support, would be the biggest waste of money ever. Reform our control, taxes, and regulations so they become more attractive, and you'll start to see more investment by companies and investors quickly.
Balanced development is what I hope happens in upstate NY.....in other words some desirable amenities that will attract new companies (more jobs) and new residents without destroying its beauty.
You are describing why some people, in NYC, may not want to relocate to upstate NY. I'm not sure attracting NYCers should be the focus of upstate, however. I agree with you that upstate should be doing more to attract business & people...but I'm not sure trying to "out-NYC, NYC" is the right approach.
Also, trying to build mass transit (even at a scaled down level) to mirror an NYC lifestyle is simply not going to happen without jobs, people moving, and the subsequent tax revenue generated by that. Upstate will never have this type of setup, and as you pointed out, there will only ever be 1 NYC.
Attracting New Yorkers will not be the focus but will be the end result if certain development happens upstate NY because we are in the same state. It is only natural that as a place develops it becomes more attractive to people as a place to live and work. Mass transit in upstate NY does not need to mirror NYC transit system....besides the terrain in upstate NY would probably make that impossible anyway.
No one wants to "out NYC" as you put it. I just happen to be a person that can think outside the NYC box and want what is best for the entire state not just my own backyard. Seems that there is over development in NYC and not enough in upstate NY and I hope to see that change.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
as you put it. I just happen to be a person that can think outside the NYC box and want what is best for the entire state not just my own backyard. Seems that there is over development in NYC and not enough in upstate NY and I hope to see that change.
