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mwcc its in gardner,ma its a communnity college. I majored in liberal studies, so that why I shoudl be able to transfer into any degree I want./ You see as I've taken all the classes requierd of any college, english, math, science et cetra as well as mostly law/polotical science classes for exc. No I've never even heard of JUCO> What do you think about the majors i proposed, and I could easily excel in computer science. It was major in considered by itself until I looked at the joboutlook. But how could having alot specfic computer knowledge appeal to a law-school besides better logic. Where plenty of other majors teach how to logically approach problems as well as teach you relvant information to law, such as history or how politcs work or criminal justice and even pyschlogy. Thats why in defenitely minoring in pyschology, I think its imperative to know how people think/feel and how and why. All excellent things to know in the court room and outside of it.
How would a psychology major look? Or economics? Are you an attorney yourself?
City College has a Pre-law program and also a Urban Legal Studies program that lie within its PoliSci department but what you major in undergrad really will not matter to law school adcomm's unless you plan on doing IP law which you need to major in a hard science or tax law in which you'd need to be well versed in accounting. John Jay College also has a Legal Studies program and NYCTech has a Paralegal program.
That is absolutely false that law school adcomm's put much weight into your undergrad's reputation. Unless your GPA was low and you went to a school like Swarthmore which is infamous for its difficult grading policy. LSAT score, UGPA and class rank, LOR's and personal statement/diversity statement(if minority) will be more of a factor and you should gear up now to do volunteer work and join social groups which are great soft factors. And NYC really only has 3 top tiered law schools NYU, Columbia and Fordham with the former 2 being "national degrees" that are in the T14.
ok; this is my final post in this thread because i hate it when i have actual, relevant experience in a field and someone contests my knowledge. having said that, here goes.
first, mead is 100% correct. your LSAT score is the most important thing. i would like to point out that i said the same thing. if you look at my criteria list, i placed LSAT score as #1 and indicated that the criteria were in order of decending importance. an extraordinary LSAT score overcomes just about anything. my friend went to a state school, had a cush major, and a 2.5 UGPA. however, he banged out a 174 LSAT. he was waitlisted at duke and ultimately accpeted. this is easier said than done. most people hit a wall on their LSAT. yes; you can improve, but my experience is that the improvement is not overly dramatic. i studied for 6 months and took a prep class. my score improved 4 points. the section where you can probably expect to see the most improvement is the logic games. there are strategies for working them. you will need to know those strategies cold.
second, the claim that a law school does not consider the prestige of your undergraduate school is total fiction. yes; they absolutely do. if you don't want to take my word for it, look at the breakdown lists for top-tier law schools. i currently attend a top-tier law school. i (and most of my fellow students) are ivy grads. coincidence? absolutely not. a degree from dartmouth looks better than a degree from syracuse. period.
third, law schools don't care a jot for your 'soft factors.' if you're a minority, that's a completely different interest. it will help you. law schools do not care how much volunteer work you did. it is a numbers/prestige equation. if you make the numbers/prestige cut, then they will read your personal statement. those who know how to write gain admission; those who don't are denied.
fourth, the claim that a law school's admissions board does not care what you majored in is fiction, as well. the admissions board is plenty savvy. they know that majoring in a humanity or soft science is a joke compared to a hard science. when i interviewed for northwestern (one of the only law schools that has an interview process. if you meet their suggested numbers requirements, i highly recommend NW), we talked about how a hard science, math, or economics major is viewed in a better light than the typical humanities or soft science majors that apply. no one will be impressed by anything but the above. don't try to rationalize how psychology really should be a better fit than physics to an admissions board. it isn't. if they see you majored in pysch., they think you're probably a cheerleader or of similar intellectual capabilities. if they see you majored in physics, they think that you're sh*t hot.
fifth, i don't know how you define top-tier, but i place all the following law schools in it: (nyu #4, columbia #5, fordham #25, cardozo #52, brooklyn law #60, st. john's #70) if you compare the admissions statistics from cardozo, BLS, or st. john's against a higher ranked school like ohio state, u washington, u alabama....or any other school in a state that only has 1 law school, you will find that the LSAT score, UGPA, and undergrad univeristy prestige is equal to or greater at the nyc schools. why are they lower ranked you ask? because of other ranking factors used by u.s. news.
in summary, attend the most prestigious school you can, major in a hard science, math, or economics, use other courses to pad your UGPA, and do whatever you have to do to score in the 85th %-tile or better on your LSAT.
I think you should still keep it coming. I know folks like yourself and Hustla make statements and get peeps upset. I may disagree with a lot of what both of you say, but I still read them.
Although I still stand by my argument that dependence on top-tier schools are a potential diversity problem waiting to happen (discussed on another thread), I do understand the reasoning behind the emphasis on them, plus the LSATS!
not really everything he said was honest and already known
I still plan on going to CUNY and probaly majoring in economics and minoring in pyschology, regardless of what anyone says. It helps when talking or aruging people to know how their mind works. It's something you learn mostly intuitively, but pyschology and crime is a field initself. I already knew about clubs and all that ****, but they are "soft factors" like queens say that help nonetheless. How is pyshics relvant to law, besides deeper comprehension of theory? I don't see how it is, I'd rather major in something that I like and will help me with my future job than do it cuz it looks like hot ****. Also how good are your chances of getting a job from just a ba economics degree in nyc?
scat: i appreciate the support. on the diversity issue...real quick. i agree that top-tiered medical, law, business schools and elite employers unwillingness to look beyond truly elite undergraduate college's graduates is silly. outside of professional fields (law, medicine, and engineering), most people are capable of doing most jobs. but, there has to be a way to discern who gets what jobs. for better or worse, our society chose education. that is my qualm with the process. i could care less about diversity. all i care about is competency and merit. the problem reveals itself best when a job's requirements are wholly irrelevant to any attribute that would place a princeton grad over the high school grad and yet the princeton grad is chosen. i think education is great. but, ultimately i think we need a better way to determine who gets what job.
not really everything he said was honest and already known
I still plan on going to CUNY and probaly majoring in economics and minoring in pyschology, regardless of what anyone says. It helps when talking or aruging people to know how their mind works. It's something you learn mostly intuitively, but pyschology and crime is a field initself. I already knew about clubs and all that ****, but they are "soft factors" like queens say that help nonetheless. How is pyshics relvant to law, besides deeper comprehension of theory? I don't see how it is, I'd rather major in something that I like and will help me with my future job than do it cuz it looks like hot ****. Also how good are your chances of getting a job from just a ba economics degree?
...this is what i'm talking about. as you please, then, young man. ignore relevant experience and wisdom at your peril. as far as i can tell, i'm the only one here who actually attends a top-tier law school. but, if you know better, then kudos to you. good luck.
and your already on the track to becoming the arrogant alumni. Dude seroiusly, just because your more honest than other people doesn't mean your're smarter. And i've also talked to an attorney and law professor about this not a "law student". I'll take everyones advice into consideration and i will be seeing you the future sometime straightshooter.
ok; this is my final post in this thread because i hate it when i have actual, relevant experience in a field and someone contests my knowledge. having said that, here goes.
first, mead is 100% correct. your LSAT score is the most important thing. i would like to point out that i said the same thing. if you look at my criteria list, i placed LSAT score as #1 and indicated that the criteria were in order of decending importance. an extraordinary LSAT score overcomes just about anything. my friend went to a state school, had a cush major, and a 2.5 UGPA. however, he banged out a 174 LSAT. he was waitlisted at duke and ultimately accpeted. this is easier said than done. most people hit a wall on their LSAT. yes; you can improve, but my experience is that the improvement is not overly dramatic. i studied for 6 months and took a prep class. my score improved 4 points. the section where you can probably expect to see the most improvement is the logic games. there are strategies for working them. you will need to know those strategies cold.
second, the claim that a law school does not consider the prestige of your undergraduate school is total fiction. yes; they absolutely do. if you don't want to take my word for it, look at the breakdown lists for top-tier law schools. i currently attend a top-tier law school. i (and most of my fellow students) are ivy grads. coincidence? absolutely not. a degree from dartmouth looks better than a degree from syracuse. period.
third, law schools don't care a jot for your 'soft factors.' if you're a minority, that's a completely different interest. it will help you. law schools do not care how much volunteer work you did. it is a numbers/prestige equation. if you make the numbers/prestige cut, then they will read your personal statement. those who know how to write gain admission; those who don't are denied.
fourth, the claim that a law school's admissions board does not care what you majored in is fiction, as well. the admissions board is plenty savvy. they know that majoring in a humanity or soft science is a joke compared to a hard science. when i interviewed for northwestern (one of the only law schools that has an interview process. if you meet their suggested numbers requirements, i highly recommend NW), we talked about how a hard science, math, or economics major is viewed in a better light than the typical humanities or soft science majors that apply. no one will be impressed by anything but the above. don't try to rationalize how psychology really should be a better fit than physics to an admissions board. it isn't. if they see you majored in pysch., they think you're probably a cheerleader or of similar intellectual capabilities. if they see you majored in physics, they think that you're sh*t hot.
fifth, i don't know how you define top-tier, but i place all the following law schools in it: (nyu #4, columbia #5, fordham #25, cardozo #52, brooklyn law #60, st. john's #70) if you compare the admissions statistics from cardozo, BLS, or st. john's against a higher ranked school like ohio state, u washington, u alabama....or any other school in a state that only has 1 law school, you will find that the LSAT score, UGPA, and undergrad univeristy prestige is equal to or greater at the nyc schools. why are they lower ranked you ask? because of other ranking factors used by u.s. news.
in summary, attend the most prestigious school you can, major in a hard science, math, or economics, use other courses to pad your UGPA, and do whatever you have to do to score in the 85th %-tile or better on your LSAT.
If you caught what I later wrote I said that some majors do have an advantage but it is not that important. Will Yale deny a 4.0 English major from Syracuse w/ a 175 LSAT? Probably not that person is likely an auto-admit. Bet they reject the 2.5 w/ 175 from Dartmouth who majored in English or even Math because of the GPA which top schools like to keep inflated(>3.7)
Congrats on being in LS may I ask which one as I am applying this cycle. What specialization will you pursue and what class are you, 08',09'? Would also like to know more about a 2.5/174, that is a major splitter and being admitted into DUKE the person had to have a great PS or soft factors(work experience) as that is an anomaly.I'm actually applying to DUKE,UNC,Wake,GW,G'Town and maybe Michigan.Top tiered=nat'l programs and consist of the Top 14 in USN&R and the next 36. Tier 2 is from 51-100 and then you have supposed "TTT(tier three toilets) and FTT(fourth tier toilets). Now since you are in LS I'm sure you are familiar w/ OCI and placement stats. Most students want to go into BIGLAW or big named civil rights firms and those three(Columbia,NYU and Fordham) place the most students in NYC along w/the other top 14.
Brooklyn and Cardozo are good schools but not top tiered, you would need to be top 10%-15% to even be considered for BIGLAW.I would have thought a man who relied so heavy on USN&R would see that a #52 ranking and below is "mediocre".BTW,Ohio State and U.Washington are not the only law schools in their state.
I think you should still keep it coming. I know folks like yourself and Hustla make statements and get peeps upset. I may disagree with a lot of what both of you say, but I still read them.
Although I still stand by my argument that dependence on top-tier schools are a potential diversity problem waiting to happen (discussed on another thread), I do understand the reasoning behind the emphasis on them, plus the LSATS!
Scat would you mind providing a link to said thread as I think this thread will get hijacked at its pace so the responses could go there.
mwcc its in gardner,ma its a communnity college. I majored in liberal studies, so that why I shoudl be able to transfer into any degree I want./ You see as I've taken all the classes requierd of any college, english, math, science et cetra as well as mostly law/polotical science classes for exc. No I've never even heard of JUCO> What do you think about the majors i proposed, and I could easily excel in computer science. It was major in considered by itself until I looked at the joboutlook. But how could having alot specfic computer knowledge appeal to a law-school besides better logic. Where plenty of other majors teach how to logically approach problems as well as teach you relvant information to law, such as history or how politcs work or criminal justice and even pyschlogy. Thats why in defenitely minoring in pyschology, I think its imperative to know how people think/feel and how and why. All excellent things to know in the court room and outside of it.
How would a psychology major look? Or economics? Are you an attorney yourself?
Sure you can major in Psychology which was my major but you must keep a high GPA as adcomms will see these types of majors as less vigorous then someone taking a ton on science classes. Hard Sciences just looks impressive to them that is the way it is. Take courses that interest you and keep the GPA high and continue volunteering and in student activities and get slammin' LOR from professors. Along with a great LSAT that will be the recipe for being admitted into a top law school.
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